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Do tubes do anything well in circuits?

restorer-john

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Still used as the beam source for X-rays, CT and mammography.

Only one source for c-beams:

I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like… tears in rain. Time to die.

 

tomtoo

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Wrong question.
Question should be, have tubes any bennefit in audio frequence amplifier design?

And if, which are this?
 

Ron Texas

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Tubes have a nice orange glow and will keep your house warm. If you enjoy looking at your gear more than listening to it, go for tubes.
 

DonH56

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The voltage headroom of a tube preamp in a phono circuit can be advantageous to keep it from clipping and going berserk (technical term) when hit with tics and pops from a record. That is pretty much a non-issue today, but In The Beginning of SS there were some pretty ugly results when some opamps were overdriven. It also took some designers a bit to figure out that current noise is a thing and a BJT was not usually the best choice for a high-impedance (e.g. phono) input needing high gain and low noise. JFETs are a great choice; MOSFETs don't have input bias current but do have high noise. A friend in college decided that microwave GaAs or InP FETs must be great since they had (extremely) high bandwidth and would tolerate fairly high voltages. He learned about 1/f noise the hard way, since some of those microwave devices had 1/f noise corners around 100 MHz, and high flicker noise as well. His design also oscillated around a few GHz until he figured out the compensation. Too much bandwidth can be worse than too little...

A well-designed tube circuit sounds like a well-designed SS circuit; i.e. it has no sound.

The Maclaurin expansion of the distortion series for a tube is factorial instead of exponential for a bipolar transistor so a tube has lower intrinsic distortion. An ideal MOSFET is even better since the expansion ends at the square term. In real world many other things contribute to distortion, and its reduction.

I am not a tube designer, not for many years, so an expert like @SIY would be the one to ask.
 
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anmpr1

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1) The real advantage that contemporary amplification has (over *most* tube designs) is that the output devices don't require a transformer and the power supplies are at lower voltages.

2) Solid state devices based on the transistor are smaller, less expensive and don't use much power (compared to tubes).

3) Beware any tube device where the tubes are used as buffer stages, and don't actively amplify the signal.

1) Your reference to OTL amplifiers? Those have been, historically, a semi-commercial 'success' (LOL) for driving high voltage electrostatic panels and high impedance conventional loudspeakers. Acoustat Model X was an example. Also, the Beveridge Model 2.

Stand alone OTL amplifiers, the most famous being Julius Futterman's design, have been mildly 'success' in the niche market. Perhaps more known about than ever seen. Julius hand made them in his Manhattan apartment, and a handful were factory built under license, using the Harvard Electronics name. Later, after Julius' death, a modified design was sold by Harvey Rosenberg under the New York Audio Lab moniker. Futterman amps featured tubes found in television sets, and were said to work well with loudspeakers that didn't dip much below 8 ohms. Anything less and they'd become unstable, and blow up. At least that's the story Harvey told. from his warranty bench.

2) None of the above were inexpensive, for sure. But always smaller and less expensive? While usually so, the Class A phenomenon one sometimes runs across (thanks for that, Mark) are certainly as expensive, large, hot, and as hungry for electricity as tube amplifiers.

3) Some phono amplifiers (such as the Bellari) use a tube for 'buffering' or modding (muddying?) the signal. In the Bellari, primary amplification is an opamp. On the other hand, I have a hand built phono preamp that uses a JFET for the first stage (low noise) and dual 12AY7 tubes, then going to a 12AX7 line stage. Just know what you are spending you money on. Designs like the Bellari (raved about by Mr. Analog, Michael Fremer, by the way) seem to me to be fraudulent in their advertising because they don't state up front what is going on within the circuit.

Power amplification has often used 'hybrid' tube/SS combos. George Kaye's NYAL Moscode, and perhaps Bascom King's amplifier being the best known examples. Michael Elliot's Counterpoint designs also come to mind. I'm sure there's a lot more.

Moving to the associated audio world, RF applications use tubes, last I looked. Also, of course, in musical instrument amplifiers, where tube distortion is favored. Some of the latest SS 'digital modeling' amps certainly come close to mimicking the 'overdriven' tube sound, but at a price.

I think the benefit of tubes for a hobbyist is that there are a lot of designs out there the average cat with a soldering iron can easily build, many based upon 'old' Dave Hafler/Ed Laurent Dyna designs. These are generally simpler assemble and test than high powered SS designs. Certainly at night they tend to look cooler in your system (although running hotter :facepalm:).
 

GXAlan

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Tube vs Solid-State - Why Do Tubes Sound Better? | thetubestore Blog
Biased overview but is accurate in some of the theory behind favorable distortions. But this is only true for equally powered amps. The dynamic transients is why high-powered amplifiers often sound better than lower powered solid state amplifiers when the reality is that you're only pulling 1-10W at a given time [and why class A 30W amps can power big speakers too]

Tube manipulation of the sound has to be thought of as being similar to Auromatic, Dolby Pro Logic II/Dolby Surround [atmos], DTS Neural X, Logic 7/16, which are also favorable manipulations of the source.

With the tube amp it's "forced manipulation" but I am willing to bet that anyone with a tube amp has more than one audio system. Perhaps a SS setup or even another tube setup with different set of tubes.

AES E-Library » Tubes Versus Transistors-Is There an Audible Difference
Is the technical discussion, but the article is not free.
 

MCH

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Yes, when you are using 15 to 130 thousand volts, using tubes make real sense.
Well any time you need to excite atoms to such energetic levels so that they emit photons in the xray range, nothing easier to get than high energetic electrons and no better (and cheaper) medium than vacuum. But no grid here, full gas :cool:
 

egellings

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Tubes, FETs of all types, and bipolar devices all generate distortions that are specific to the device's working principles, and careful use of negative feedback can result in an excellent audio amplifier using any of them, alone or in combination.
 

mhardy6647

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I believe vacuum tubes are still used in thermonuclear weapons and microwave ovens.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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I believe vacuum tubes are still used in thermonuclear weapons and microwave ovens.
I want that tube warmth in my thermonuclear weapons. o_O
 

JSmith

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I believe vacuum tubes are still used in thermonuclear weapons and microwave ovens.
Not to mention everyone used to have a massive one in their loungeroom... monitors, anything that still uses a CRT.
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Dolby Surround [atmos]
Please clarify...



JSmith
 

GXAlan

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Please clarify...

I was suggesting that intentional manipulation is done with 2 ch to Mch matrixing. You can turn it on and off. With a tube amp, it’s forced but if you have multiple systems you can use tube distortion or not.

Dolby Surround was originally 3.0 (mono surround). Then prologic came out. THX modification of Prologic. Then Prologic II. Then Atmos came out. Atmos reflects the object based format but there is also “Dolby Surround” with the same name found on home Atmos gear which is the next version of Prologic II.
 
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