Stereophile's Jim Austin disagrees w Atkinson; says tubes have something that can't be measured

[JSmith]

It might be an idea to move the rest of this Atmos discussion to a more appropriate thread;

To Atmos or not

We're all looking for the best sound. Perhaps some here not in movies, but I am. Got 2 extra very adequate atmos speakers after upgrading fronts. Receiver can accomodate atmos and I play music in stereo so nothing to lose there. Huge room but it already sounds very good to me for movies...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Dolby Atmos

Hi Confinement is a beach (on-purpose play on spelling)... I am forced to come up with ways not to get bored to death. We all are. I am working on a separate 2-channel system. I have opened a thread on that and am making sloooow progress. I already have a decent HT with the following...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[BDWoody]

You are in over your head on this one

As I said to your pal Sal. You are in over your head on this topic.

This isn't how it goes around here.

 

[DSJR]

This isn't how it goes around here.

I think it's a humorous retort with no emoji to confirm... Isn't the entire thing about 'Atmos' that you do go in 'over your head' as many effects are above you

 

[BDWoody]

I think it's a humorous retort with no emoji to confirm... Isn't the entire thing about 'Atmos' that you do go in 'over your head' as many effects are above you

Based on his previous posts, I'm not quite so sure, but I hope you are right.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I think it's a humorous retort with no emoji to confirm... Isn't the entire thing about 'Atmos' that you do go in 'over your head' as many effects are above you

I thought it was about Jim Austin believing that audiophiles can hear qualities in tube gear that can’t be measured.

 

[DSJR]

I thought it was about Jim Austin believing that audiophiles can hear qualities in tube gear that can’t be measured.

I referred to your comments about sal being in over his head...

Jim Austin's comments are classic tech-ignorant audiophile nonsense (playing to his dwindling crowd no doubt) which I followed almost blindly for years in spite of friends and audio engineers trying to educate me, until a few little epiphanies opened my mind a bit more and it all clicked into place.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I referred to your comments about sal being in over his head...

Jim Austin's comments are classic tech-ignorant audiophile nonsense (playing to his dwindling crowd no doubt) which I followed almost blindly for years in spite of friends and audio engineers trying to educate me, until a few little epiphanies opened my mind a bit more and it all clicked into place.

Epiphanies are nice. You never know when a new one is coming. I like to keep the door open to new ideas. It has been suggested that any further discussions on the merits of Dolby Atmos be continued on threads about Dolby Atmos. I’m good with that.

 

[Newman]

Well, delete your most recent posts on it in this thread…

 

[DSJR]

Back to a kind of sore point with me, even if it is well deserved in too many cases - bashing UK audio products! The UK engineers could certainly design good 'High in Fidelity' products too back then before subjectivism and an ageing customer base dictated otherwise.

One KEF I heard about but never saw, is the professional KM1 which, if the article below is to be believed, started the entire huge built-in monitor craze which still lingers (to impress clients mostly I gather nowadays). However it turned out, a hell of a lot of work went into designing them and actually, the 'donor' R105 could sound pretty damned impressive in fairness, alongside the original and Matrix era B&W 801.

Golden Gear: KEF KM1

Main studio monitors these days are packed full of technology — but that wasn’t always the case, and it took an innovative British hi‑fi brand to drag mains out of the dark ages.

www.soundonsound.com

 

[Purité Audio]

D that was then and this is now, unfortunately.
Keith

 

[Cbdb2]

As I said to your pal Sal. You are in over your head on this topic.

Right we are in over our heads and your the expert? Dunning Kruger anyone?

 

[Overseas]

If 'something' cannot be measured, then how on earth is 'it' managed/ built/ generated by the producer!? Because somehow it is implied that some brands own 'it'.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Right we are in over our heads and you’re the expert? Dunning Kruger anyone?

I am definitely not an expert. But in my forty years in the hobby I have learned enough to do two things. 1. Listen to actual experts. 2. Sniff out who the actual experts really are. When it comes to the state of the art in spatial audio the two experts I listen to are Dr. Edgar Choueiri and James Johnston. If you and the guy with buns of steel want to dispute what those experts have to say on the subject of spatial audio using actual facts, measurements and listening tests I’m happy to listen to what any of you have to say. But when all you guys have are personal insults my conclusion is that you guys are actually in over your heads on that subject.

 

[xrqp]

I assume the science will continue to advance and in the future we will be able to measure more things, and interpret even better than today.

 

[Overseas]

I assume the science will continue to advance and in the future we will be able to measure more things, and interpret even better than today.

That is not the issue.
The issue is that TODAY some brands claim they can master, build and sell the un-measurable.

 

[BDWoody]

I think it's a humorous retort with no emoji to confirm... Isn't the entire thing about 'Atmos' that you do go in 'over your head' as many effects are above you

Well, it was a good thought, but unfortunately no such luck.

 

[fpitas]

Looks like the quote there is attributed to the wrong guy...

Yeah, that was odd. I guess the forum has the occasional bug.

 

[Sal1950]

I am definitely not an expert. But in my forty years in the hobby I have learned enough to do two things. 1. Listen to actual experts. 2. Sniff out who the actual experts really are. When it comes to the state of the art in spatial audio the two experts I listen to are Dr. Edgar Choueiri and James Johnston. If you and the guy with buns of steel want to dispute what those experts have to say on the subject of spatial audio using actual facts, measurements and listening tests I’m happy to listen to what any of you have to say. But when all you guys have are personal insults my conclusion is that you guys are actually in over your heads on that subject.

For sure! If this was a horserace, you've put your money on the wrong nag.
But your welcome to mess around trying to emulate a real discreet multich system with 2ch"s using these
fancy BACCH phase players, Q sound, Dynaquad and the rest. I've played with them all for going on 50+ years too.
Back to the real world, Atmos in it's full lossless form, along with 5.1, and (even 4.0 with new real world releases
being made almost monthly by Quadio and others) on BluRay, DVD, & download media IS the SOTA in todays immersive audio.
To once more quote Timbuk 3, "The futures so bright, I gotta wear shades"

 

[krabapple]

I am definitely not an expert. But in my forty years in the hobby I have learned enough to do two things. 1. Listen to actual experts. 2. Sniff out who the actual experts really are. When it comes to the state of the art in spatial audio the two experts I listen to are Dr. Edgar Choueiri and James Johnston. I\

JJ is not particularly a fan of 2-channel audio.

As for 'spatial', there's the XTC (crosstalk cancellation) school (here's what actual expert Floyd Toole has to say about it*), the upmixing-to-multichannel school, and the true multichannel school. Choose your curriculum.

(*and here is why he still prefers multichannel)

 

[Short38]

My SMSL dac offers several sound “color” choices. Anyone played with those?