Do speakers change all that much after 100 hours of 'burn-in'?

[HarmonicTHD]

Oh boy... it is just impossible to kill fairy tales once they are out. ....

Facts please. Since years, nobody has scientifically proven that audible break-in (especially to the better) for Audio component exists. The tests which claim differently, are either not controlled or the difference are so minute, that they are not audible. Be happy to be proven differently, but no anecdotes please (plenty of them on the web already and pages of threads already here on the forum as well).

The story mainly helps snake oil sellers, trying to run down the return period so the buyer has grown used to it and keeps the otherwise (often overpriced) merchandize.

 

[MAB]

This has nothing to do with magic, it's just physics and chemistry.

This is exactly what I am saying. And speakers don't change very much at all during first use.

However, lots of things change during first use of a newly-installed server. For performance, most notably the thermal grease on the CPU heat-spreader.

Many Server (and Client) chips are burned-in prior to shipment, but the goal is to reduce early life fails by voltage and temperature acceleration. And is totally different than the non-issue of speaker break-in.

Speakers are different.

 

[Roland68]

This is making sure it works properly not running it for no reason other than to make it work better, which is what audiophile burn in is.

In audiophile burn in simply running power through the device makes its performance improve over time. Really serious audiophiles may notice performance dips and peaks during this period before the device finally 'settles down.'

Nothing to do with calibration, stress testing or anything similar.

Maybe you didn't follow what I wrote before. The aim was simply to show that a "burn-in" effect in electronic components is known and is handled accordingly in the industry. I didn't make any statement about the sound effects.

But audiophile burn in?
But in reality it's all the same.
Through aging or operation, the components in the devices reach a status quo that is maintained for a long time. It's not about better or worse, just about stability.
If you build one device with normal components and one with pre-aged components, both devices will eventually become similar.

The bottom line is that for an audio device it doesn't matter whether components are pre-aged or not. The devices are produced and tested for functionality. Nothing is adjusted or adjusted, apart from certain amplifiers or preamplifiers, which are the exception today.

 

[Mart68]

Maybe you didn't follow what I wrote before. The aim was simply to show that a "burn-in" effect in electronic components is known and is handled accordingly in the industry. I didn't make any statement about the sound effects.

But audiophile burn in?
But in reality it's all the same.
Through aging or operation, the components in the devices reach a status quo that is maintained for a long time. It's not about better or worse, just about stability.
If you build one device with normal components and one with pre-aged components, both devices will eventually become similar.

The bottom line is that for an audio device it doesn't matter whether components are pre-aged or not. The devices are produced and tested for functionality. Nothing is adjusted or adjusted, apart from certain amplifiers or preamplifiers, which are the exception today.

Audibility is what we are concerned with here, this being an audio forum.

Obviously the parameters of everything change to some degree over time. A big rock is not the same shape as when you saw it yesterday although you'd never know to look at it. But that has no bearing on the topic of discussion.

 

[Salt]

Discussion is derivating.
For main stuff like amp, preamp, DAC, cables, where 'only' electrons are transferred, there may be no burn-in effect.
With speakers as mechanical objects there are different aspects.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

In audiophile burn in simply running power through the device makes its performance improve over time. Really serious audiophiles may notice performance dips and peaks during this period before the device finally 'settles down.'

So ..... if the "burn-in" was performed by someone who was NOT a Really Serious Audiophile, then the device would never settle down? What if they were only a Halfway Serious Audiophile? Would the device only settle down half as much?



Jim

 

[617]

I'm serious at work all day why would I be serious when I'm listening to music

Hey baby want to come to my place and do some critical listening

Yeah I don't think so

 

[Mart68]

So ..... if the "burn-in" was performed by someone who was NOT a Really Serious Audiophile, then the device would never settle down? What if they were only a Halfway Serious Audiophile? Would the device only settle down half as much?



Jim

all those possibilities exist and more - especially if you apply Poe's Law.

 

[Soria Moria]

If a break-in believer was given a set of speakers advertised as brand new but which had secretly been broken in at the factory with 1,000 hours of music would the break-in believer perceive an improvement in sound after performing his own 100 hours of break-in?

Audeze ‘burns-in’ their headphones before sale (huge waste of time) and yet people still talk about them ‘burning-in’.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

It's the Practice Effect:

I love me some David Brin (but it's far from his best work.)

I consider burn in almost entirely a dealer based idea, focused on getting people to adapt to new sound. It's psychology. It stops returns. However....

I replaced the tweeters in my 1984 Heresies a while back, and since the originals started to roll off at 10k and I was putting some in that were flat to 20k, I expected to hear the difference. Instead, I thought, "where's my highs?" Left for an hour, came back, there's the highs.

Three months later, same thing with the base drivers. Lack of base, left, an hour later there's the base.

When I replaced the mid driver? I noticed no difference between fresh and 1 hour. Other than a lack of distortion, compared with 40 year old drivers that had played 12 hours a day for 20 years as main AV and music speakers! That was clear immediately.

In these cases, these were drivers fresh from the box. Maybe they changed in 5 minutes, but they definitely changed in an hour. And that was not an hour of listening. It was an hour of playing and then listening. I noticed no changes beyond that first hour, btw. And no, I did not measure, as I was not measuring things then. I would love to see some fresh from the box testing, rather than new speaker testing, as I assume many higher end speakers are at least fired up at the factory.

It does make sense to me that never played drivers will change as they start to move for the first time. But 100 hours? No way.

 

[MAB]

I would love to see some fresh from the box testing, rather than new speaker testing, as I assume many higher end speakers are at least fired up at the factory.

Here you go.
I got a brand new woofer. Tested it right out of the box to see how it changed prior to Break-In to se if environmental factors will change the properties. Small changes in room temperature do make a measurable difference. So does blowing a light breeze over the driver with a hand-held fan.

Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

I have a brand new woofer that I got as a replacement, the original was defective. The replacement driver has been sitting around un-played. Seems like it is time to see how it changes with 'break-in'. I got a DATS recently, so I'll use that. I did check it against an HP LCR with a bias...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Appreciate that the driver does change, but not by much. I have tested many drivers. I tested a 15" paper cone woofer recently to see how much it changed during break-in, but the measurements were super-boring, and showed way less change than the Seas woofer, and I got really bored since there really isn't anything dramatic or interesting to measure or hear during break-in.
Regarding changes, yes speakers break-in. But they don't change their sound much at all, certainly not in a way where you would perceive "no-sound", or "better sound", or 'had to turn the bass down". And certainly not a tweeter.
Also, how did you determine that the old tweeter was rolling off at 10kHz without a microphone?

 

[Jim Creek]

Another factor is that different materials may change at different rates. Do titanium tweeters wear in slower than fabric tweeters? Do ceramic coated aluminum-magnesium woofers hold up better than paper cones?

 

[Cadguy]

Its possible to buy speakers with a 60 return policy and test the "burn in" myth.. Has anyone tried purchasing 2 pairs of the same speaker and put one pair aside and play the other pair 12 hours a day for 50 days and then invite people for a blind test?

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Here you go.

Thanks! Nice work you did there.

Also, how did you determine that the old tweeter was rolling off at 10kHz without a microphone?

Crites had FR graphs for the original and their upgrade.

When I said I did not measure, I was measuring using a phone app and phone mic (so barely measuring), but did not do that out of the box. After the highs came back, it did show a 10dB (very roughly) increase in highs. Keep in mind this effect in terms of listening was contrary to my expectations. Does not mean it was not psychological of course. Because brains.

 

[MAB]

Thanks! Nice work you did there.

Crites had FR graphs for the original and their upgrade.

When I said I did not measure, I was measuring using a phone app and phone mic (so barely measuring), but did not do that out of the box. After the highs came back, it did show a 10dB (very roughly) increase in highs. Keep in mind this effect in terms of listening was contrary to my expectations. Does not mean it was not psychological of course. Because brains.

Got it. Yes, I would be quite surprised. Not sure what to make of it!

 

[Head_Unit]

If Schrödinger's cat had cables, we would not be able to tell if they were burned in without opening the box...

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Powerful woofers change their sound for sure. I've built many subwoofers for car-audio and when used a bit they change their sound. But we're talking big heavy surrounds of cloth and butyl rubber. Large 2x1 ohm voice coils or 2x0.5. -So not your everyday HiFi driver.

The more moving mallable parts, e.g. larger spider and surround I suspect the more of an effect burn-in has. Or rather the "burn-in" time.

All this is anectdotal and in the past. So it will be shot down in 3..2..1..

 

[Soria Moria]

Powerful woofers change their sound for sure. I've built many subwoofers for car-audio and when used a bit they change their sound. But we're talking big heavy surrounds of cloth and butyl rubber. Large 2x1 ohm voice coils or 2x0.5. -So not your everyday HiFi driver.

The more moving mallable parts, e.g. larger spider and surround I suspect the more of an effect burn-in has. Or rather the "burn-in" time.

All this is anectdotal and in the past. So it will be shot down in 3..2..1..

Isn’t the change tiny? And given that it takes a little while for it to settle it wouldn’t be easy to know that it had ever changed.

 

[YSC]

Powerful woofers change their sound for sure. I've built many subwoofers for car-audio and when used a bit they change their sound. But we're talking big heavy surrounds of cloth and butyl rubber. Large 2x1 ohm voice coils or 2x0.5. -So not your everyday HiFi driver.

The more moving mallable parts, e.g. larger spider and surround I suspect the more of an effect burn-in has. Or rather the "burn-in" time.

All this is anectdotal and in the past. So it will be shot down in 3..2..1..

I just don't think so it's a burn in, rather it's just warm up of the parts or the temperature in car...

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Isn’t the change tiny? And given that it takes a little while for it to settle it wouldn’t be easy to know that it had ever changed.

Audibly different.