Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

[amirm]

the industry make many claims, some truth, some lies...that's why it should be tested.
We can't just say every claim is an industry wide grift because it fits your narrative

I did that testing in this thread. Did you not read the OP? I also offered to test a simple paper woofer. And even offered money. Yet you are still complaining? What are you going to contribute to this investigation? Anything? If the answer is zero, it means you have nothing of value to contribute.

 

[amirm]

that's all i'm asking....when we have a good sample of "break-in" required speakers tested according to their recommendation...

If they want their recommendation to have value, they need to show what testing they did to arrive at that statement. Where did X number of hours come from? What happens with Y? What happens with 3 times X? Are they claiming measurements don't show it? Or that they do? If they do, where are the measurements. If they don't show it, how come they are talking about physical qualities that are measurable like stiffness?

Why don't you contact these companies, ask them the above and come and report back what they said. If they provide some data, then we know what to test for and how to verify it.

Some marketing guy writing X number of hours in there because they believe in the myth, or hope you won't return the gear to the store right away is not reason for me to use up a $100,000 piece of measurement equipment chasing ghosts. And that assumes my time is free which is not. I could be testing other speakers than chasing fantasies.

So are you going to contact the companies?

 

[klatwork]

I did that testing in this thread. Did you not read the OP? I also offered to test a simple paper woofer. And even offered money. Yet you are still complaining? What are you going to contribute to this investigation? Anything? If the answer is zero, it means you have nothing of value to contribute.

Revel speakers never recommended break in...their metal cones probably don't need to so they never tell you to....so you're using speakers that even the manufacturer says doesn't require break in and use it as an example against break in. All I'm saying is if the manufacturer recommends it, then do it because it might make a difference, if not, don't do it because its design doesn't require it. It's like u testing a teflon pan on effects of seasoning, then come to the conclusion that cast iron pans don't need seasoning neither because teflon doesn't...manufacturer must be just lying...

 

[skyfly]

There are a lot of "everybody knows" type of rules in audio with one of them being that audio gear in general, and speakers in the specific, benefit from "break-in." That is, their performance improves after some time. This is mostly touted by audiophiles but manufacturers also fuel this notion. See this from Klipsch's website:

View attachment 53019

Kind of strange that a company like Klipsch that knows how to measure speakers, doesn't provide a single bit of validation for this statement. You are just told to believe.

Why shouldn't we believe? I remember just about every new car I purchased said in the manual there was a break-in period and I read in auto magazine that after their long term test, mileage improved and so did power. In the case of speakers, they are made out of material that like any leather glove, can surely benefit from use to soften and fit like well, a glove. Are we supposed to all of a sudden throw out all this common sense and listen to a bunch of "objectivsts" telling us otherwise on some Internet forum? Surely not.

Heck, there are even measurements that show drivers like woofers change their characteristics after a few hours of "run in." Objective proof doesn't get better than this. Or does it?

Well, it is true that drivers change behavior after a bit of use but once you put them in a compliant box of a speaker, those differences become minimal. And certainly don't rise to the level of improvement people talk about. We could and usually stop here as the end of our argument but let's add some data, shall we?

Break-in Speaker Measurements
A couple of days ago I reviewed the Revel M16 speaker. Anxious to get quick results, I ran the test with 500 measurement points. For a 2-way speaker with clean implementation, that should be enough. When I compared the results of my measurements to Harman's anechoic measurements, I noticed that the high frequencies were rolled off in my test versus theirs. This can happen with my measurement system is the "expansion order" is too low. To increase that, I needed to measure the speaker again with higher number of points. So I doubled the measurement points to 1000 and ran the test again without touching the speaker or any other parameter.

The first 500 point measurement took about an hour and fifteen minutes. The second test took over 2 hours. If there is anything to break-in, then the second test should show some improvement. Here is the comparison:

View attachment 53023

The two measurements are essentially identical. This, despite the fact that the 1000 point measurement has much higher order expansion so brings with it more accuracy and some variations. Yet, the response is still the response. No way anything regarding tonality of the speaker changed. The same bass, mids and highs are there.

Subjective Testing
While I did not listen to the speaker between runs, I did listen to it after the second test. At that point, there was 3 to 4 hours of run time on the speaker. I compared the M16 to my Revel Salon 2 which have played hundreds or thousands of hours of music. The M16 very closely resembled the sound of the Salon 2 sans out level capability and deep bass. So no way is anything broken about it right now to need to improve.

Conclusions
Objective analysis shows that there is no change to the frequency response and hence tonality of the speaker after a few hours of intensive running (full sweeps from 20 to 20 kHz). This completely mirrors research performed at Harman where they tested a new woofer and a "broken-in" one in a real speaker. While physical changes are occurring in the driver, they are at such low level that there is no hope of attaching them to audibility.

Of course our perception of audio is not just connected to sound our ears pick up. Many other factors come into play from our faulty long term memory to allergies and mood. These are responsible for variations we hear even when nothing of import has changed in the system.

Manufacturers either genuinely believe in the speaker break-in myth, repeating what they have falsely concluded like audiophiles. Or are hoping that if you don't like the speaker at first, you hang on to it longer to lose the motivation or option to return them later. Either way, there is no reason to listen to them unless they provide objective proof that sound changes with break-in. After all, this is no small difference so surely they can measure and provide proof.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Now that I have saved you a ton of money from myth of speaker burn-in, how about donating some of that to me so I can run more of these tests using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

There is visible difference in bass.

 

[klatwork]

If anybody thinks there is a sound difference in 30-100 hours they are dreaming. All the posted break-in periods are about that time frame.
View attachment 145329

Again, "If anybody thinks there is a sound difference in 30-100, yaddi yaddah"... is an opinion...not a fact..
This must be some audiophile-on-remote-island forum. See all these speaker manufacturers actually telling you you need to...and most of the reviewers on various forums and magazines spend hours testing them and do the break in recommended.....they don't just take it out of the box and test them right off the bat ......and tell you break in must be some industry wide conspiracy theory BECAUSE I SAID SO or so and so speaker that never said to require break in didn't require break in... This is pretty much common practice and somehow it's a concept from an alternate universe to ppl here ..lol

You know what, if you ppl are too scared to do what every speaker reviewer is doing and test them the way that everyone tests them and according to manufacturers recommendation , then enjoy your echochamber......these excuses are getting silly. I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with ppl who keeps pushing conspiracy theories against industry norms but doesn't have the courage to actually do tests to debunk them...It's starting to look like a flat-earther gathering ...see you ppl later

 

[skyfly]

If a speaker model measures differently after break-in, does it break your belief? What is that belief?

If a speaker model measures differently after break-in, does it violate the mainstream science, physics and chemistry, we teach in school?

 

[DonH56]

No, it's not some alternate universe, and the analogy is unjust. It is well known the seasoning required for cast iron, and the affect of non-stick coatings. What happens, and how long it takes, when speakers break in is also well known, you are just choosing to believe the marketing material over the science and decades of research that you are unwilling to dig for on your own. For the vast majority of us this is a well-understood process not worthy of our time. You're argument is basically the same as you are throwing at those arguing the opposite: you say "because the manufacturer said so" vs. "we say the AES and speaker designers on ASR said so", plus of course the various measured data.

And I am not sure anybody has said speaker break-in does not occur; it is easily demonstrable and the changes measurable, but they are small and happen so quickly as to not be audible.

 

[anphex]

Pretty sure the changes are in the range or measurement error rate. I think break in is just a means to get people to keep the speakers at home for a long time for the customer to get used to them and decrease chance of return .

I bet what everyone calls burn it improvement is just the speaker getting to room temperature and therefore performing a little bitter that if it's at warehouse temperatur in winter.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Power Sound Audio's Tom Vodhanel clearly stated on another audio forum that minute changes can be measured in new speakers after a few hours of break-in but that these minute changes are not audible.

 

[skyfly]

Why

Power Sound Audio's Tom Vodhanel clearly stated on another audio forum that minute changes can be measured in new speakers after a few hours of break-in but that these minute changes are not audible.

Did Tom Voldhanel measured all speakers on the market?
Is there they any physics law mandating that the amount of change or the speed of change in all loudspeakers are the same?

 

[skyfly]

This is why I see the change in the original post is not small. It looks like more than 0.5 dB. In some JBL Synthesis (self claimed) "Pro" speakers, the attenuators are in 0.5 dB step.

Moreover, the change is from a speaker whose manual does not mention break-in.

As for marketing argument, I do not find any reason why so many manufacturers need to lie that the speaker will significantly make different sound after break-in rather than casting the image of an honest brand by honestly saying about psychological effect on newly bought speakers. Such an "honesty" marketing will increase the return of competitor brand speakers.

If such psychological effects are so big, can we recommend auditioning a speaker at a shop?

 

[mansr]

As for marketing argument, I do not find any reason why so many manufacturers need to lie that the speaker will significantly make different sound after break-in

Two reasons. Firstly, it discourages early returns. Secondly, many audiophile customers practically demand it, so not making up a story about break-in could actually result in lost sales. It's a mad world.

 

[YSC]

Two reasons. Firstly, it discourages early returns. Secondly, many audiophile customers practically demand it, so not making up a story about break-in could actually result in lost sales. It's a mad world.

Same view on this, as in the example that the same speaker asking for 10x the price sells better in audiophile world

 

[skyfly]

Two reasons. Firstly, it discourages early returns. Secondly, many audiophile customers practically demand it, so not making up a story about break-in could actually result in lost sales. It's a mad world.

Family members' discomfort is a deterrent against audio hobby. Making audiophiles wait for 300 hours of usage, or letting the speakers play 24/7 for non-existing break-in (if it does not exist) will increase the non-audiophiles' feeling against audiophiles. The result could be decreased size of the hi-fi market, and decreased profit.

The manufacturers should also consider the brand image in case the brand's claim turns out to be blatant in the era of free acoustic measurement software.

 

[Ken1951]

The audiophile market is infinitesimally small (sorry for the double up there) and not likely to ever expand. Manufacturers appeal to this market's desire to be told that they're special, have secret sauce, golden ears, double-secret rituals, and such. Otherwise how could they sell insanely expensive power cords for that last crucial 18 inches? Cable claims that violate the laws of physics? Raise the price, require burn-in for everything, raise the price, etc. If people want to spend money on such stuff and believe these things, fine. But it doesn't make it true.

 

[skyfly]

I know that insanely expensive power cords are in the market, but I do not know the sales quantity of such products. I found that rich people I know spend their money more carefully than I expected.

Sometimes I think of leaving the audiophile market, and just buy something like Bose Lifestyle home theatre package that has excellent return policy, or even LG home theatre package, and stop thinking about audio gears.

Sometimes I think of going to Guitar Center and buying pro audio speakers. A Guitar Center store allowed me to measure Yamaha HS7 and HS8 on display (HS8 was more flat). The store had separate monitor speaker display section. No staff entered the section while I was measuring. By the way, the monitor speakers on display at Guitar Center sounded very different from each other.

 

[MarkWinston]

Break ins work, with enough voltage. You can 'break in' your speaker for 100000000 hours at 45db and it wont do a thing. Time dont mean a thing without force. With the right voltage and enough cone excursion, your speakers will be broken in in a matter minutes. I personally play 10hz to 22khz sine wave sweeps at 100 seconds per sweep @ 20% volume for the first 5 minutes and increase to 40% for the next 5 minutes and so on. When I get to 80% volume I stop. Break in done. I could go to 80% right away but I tend to gradually increase volume as I described above.

 

[Doodski]

Break ins work, with enough voltage. You can 'break in' your speaker for 100000000 hours at 45db and it wont do a thing. Time dont mean a thing without force. With the right voltage and enough cone excursion, your speakers will be broken in in a matter minutes. I personally play 10hz to 22khz sine wave sweeps at 100 seconds per sweep @ 20% volume for the first 5 minutes and increase to 40% for the next 5 minutes and so on. When I get to 80% volume I stop. Break in done. I could go to 80% right away but I tend to gardually increase volume as I described above.

What does gradually increasing the volume do?

 

[MarkWinston]

What does gradually increasing the volume do?

Just for my own peace of mind. Read my last sentence. If you wished to blast it at 100% volume the very first time you turn it on, or any volume for that matter, its your choice. I just wont do that to my treasured equipment. And that doesnt change the fact that break ins work, even after 35 pages of twisting and turning.

 

[Doodski]

And that doesnt change the fact that break ins work

There is no proof that it works. You seem to have a vivid imagination about your method. Winding up the volume slowly and such. I've replaced the drivers in manyyyy speakers and I never wound them ups slowly when frequency sweeping them to check for issues. There simply was not the time to go slowly and do it in gradual steps. Break-in is a imaginative thing and is just that.