Is there a sub $10k speaker that would beat or equal all $20k+ speakers in a blind test?

[mk05]

I am surprised no voting option for $10k in room treatment

 

[Todd68]

8361
It beats every speaker I've heard (I prefer not to name names)
Obviously I haven't heard any speaker on the planet or the KH420 that should be as good or better going by the reviews

Can I hook an analog preamp to those? I still use a tuner, cd player and turntable. Streaming through firestick and oppo 105.

 

[Behrelec 37]

Yes, every genelec can use an analog xlr connector, it can be changed to an xlr/rca connection as well, if only someone wants it that way.

And on another note.

For the price of 10,000 e/dollar. You could also get the Genelec 8361a, S360, 1237a, and in addition, countless smaller models are available for almost 10,000 euros. In the same models, it is also possible to take the analog side by side as an AES/EBU connection, i.e. the most direct digital path, for example, from the RCA coax output of a CD player or the SPDIF/TOSLINK output via a small converter. The analog connection is also functional.

Genelec speaker products are far ahead in development than traditional loudspeakers, even when comparing active speakers to other competitors.

 

[kemmler3D]

I have already tested Revel F35s, F36s, F226s and Ascends ELXs against each other in my home and found that I can not hear the tiniest of difference. They all sound great to me. (I used Erin's recommendations on what to listen for). What I'm dying to find out is if people who claim they can tell the difference really can. I will not be taking possession of the Blades, but instead will have them sent to a manufacturer who has the ability to perform a proper blind test, and I will be most interested to see the results. Obviously such results will not prove anything either way, but they will provide evidence either in support of or against my theory and I find that very interesting and feel incredibly lucky that I can indulge such silly curiosity.

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If you want to get better at detecting differences between speakers, my advice is to spend some decent time playing music while tweaking the sound with PEQ, one that has a spectrum visualiser. I used to evaluate speakers and headphones as part of my job, and to the extent I was effective at that, I think making the connection between specific frequencies, what they sound like in music, and what they sound like as tones really helped. Eventually you can sit down and say things like "I think this speaker has a 2db bump around 450hz" and be right more often than not. This is by virtue of A/Bing a 2dB bump at 450hz a bunch of times.

Also, you can only really use music you've listened to a billion times or so. Using pink noise is much easier but it's almost cheating.

I did a lot of that in the context of a DAW just in the process of making music, but if you want to catch minute differences, however you go about it, try to become a human spectrum analyzer.

I'll warn you that it's actually more fun to be a music listener... Developing a habit of listening for flaws (sort of inevitable) can make you feel smart but also makes gear less satisfying.

All that said, I'm glad to hear you got some extra time to dive into a cool hobby that is compatible with your health. I for one don't mind speculation and your posts here are fine by me.

 

[Aldo]

Otherwise there will be the S6C which should surpass many speakers at twice its price!!

 

[kharan]

As always just curios what the general feeling is here on ASR on this highly controversial topic. For those who vote yes I'd also be curios to know what speaker or speakers you are thinking about. At the moment I personally have a belief that an Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon tower could equal any more expensive speaker in a blind test. If you voted for option 3 I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you think blind tests are not helpful and more importantly if there is any way you see to create a blind test that WAS helpful.

There are some assumptions that I could not include in the question.

1) I'm talking about speakers intended for normal rooms say roughly less than 500 sq ft.
2) I'm assuming bass response is negated with either a filter or using a sub.

No. There will never be. And likewise, there will never be a 20k speaker that equals all 10k speakers.

Simply because no two speakers sound exactly the same.

 

[Deleted member 43957]

For $7k... these 328 Be's are a steal! The MSRP is $17,600.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650222262-revel-f328be/

 

[Mort]

Can I hook an analog preamp to those? I still use a tuner, cd player and turntable. Streaming through firestick and oppo 105.

Absolutely.

 

[Oddball]

Looks like you are answering your own question - in a different way. Can't see a reason to go Blades if crossed over at 80hz and played at "normal" SPL - given that you were not able to distinguish different Revel's at different pricing levels (which probably most would not). You did not mention any other factor that would be important so I am using just the obvious one to distinguish - value. Blades are iconic and excellent performing speakers, that in addition look really great, so some might want to pay a premium for that, or run them full range to let them sing as they were made to do.

What other people could or could not distinguish is IMO not that relevant. You are setting up your system for yourself. If you like thee ELX towers - put a ring on them and move on.

Ascend seems to also have a reasonably priced ELX center (not checked the performance though) and given you are setting up multi-channel system, center should not be overlooked. Blades don't really have a matching center. KEF has some great center speakers like R4 Meta, but never thought if they are right ones for Blades (vs eg some other brand). And that one is almost 4x the price of ELX center.

Unsolicited comment - I see you are on a journey. That might involve some additional spending on other gear once you are done with LR dilemma. After that, temptation moves to other areas. Having some dry gunpowder in reserve is a good idea for the future endeavours.

 

[2Sunny]

Looks like you are answering your own question - in a different way. Can't see a reason to go Blades if crossed over at 80hz and played at "normal" SPL - given that you were not able to distinguish different Revel's at different pricing levels (which probably most would not). You did not mention any other factor that would be important so I am using just the obvious one to distinguish - value. Blades are iconic and excellent performing speakers, that in addition look really great, so some might want to pay a premium for that, or run them full range to let them sing as they were made to do.

What other people could or could not distinguish is IMO not that relevant. You are setting up your system for yourself. If you like thee ELX towers - put a ring on them and move on.

Ascend seems to also have a reasonably priced ELX center (not checked the performance though) and given you are setting up multi-channel system, center should not be overlooked. Blades don't really have a matching center. KEF has some great center speakers like R4 Meta, but never thought if they are right ones for Blades (vs eg some other brand). And that one is almost 4x the price of ELX center.

Unsolicited comment - I see you are on a journey. That might involve some additional spending on other gear once you are done with LR dilemma. After that, temptation moves to other areas. Having some dry gunpowder in reserve is a good idea for the future endeavours.

Really if I boil this down to what's of interest to me, it's to find out whether or not those who claim they can hear the difference between a $10k speaker and a $20k speaker is true hence as I mentioned above I'm having the Blades delivered to a third party for professional testing so I will never actually have them in my house. Obviously as I said before none of this will make the least difference to anyone other than me. It's just satisfying an "itch" I have that I can afford to scratch and one that is providing some much needed entertainment at the moment.

If and when I can resume some "normal" activities I have plenty of "dry gunpowder" available and hobbies to spend them on

Me before the Big C

 

[Oddball]

Really if I boil this down to what's of interest to me, it's to find out whether or not those who claim they can hear the difference between a $10k speaker and a $20k speaker is true hence as I mentioned above I'm having the Blades delivered to a third party for professional testing so I will never actually have them in my house. Obviously as I said before none of this will make the least difference to anyone other than me. It's just satisfying an "itch" I have that I can afford to scratch and one that is providing some much needed entertainment at the moment.

If and when I can resume some "normal" activities I have plenty of "dry gunpowder" available and hobbies to spend them on

Me before the Big C

View attachment 458750

Great to see that you are having fun - my comment re gunpowder was more budget than asset related. I could relax with budgets, but still try to adhere to them as they were set to make sense and pass some of the goodies to the next generation.

Let us know how the Blade test goes. Will be interesting to hear the feedback.

From my experience, I can tell you that long-er term musicians would be the most prone to noticing very subtle differences. An example would be a piano player that played the same tune for 30 years, perhaps 1000 times - and then hears the same tune (appropriately recorded) on audio system. Or even better example would be my old friend that was tuning pianos and grands for last 30 years, and is still going at it. He tunes them by ear and then does very minor adjustments based on the electronic thingy they use for that purpose. It is really a sight to be seen.

Not sure if even the most educated listener can compare to these guys that acquired the knowledge and reference from the source.

 

[Groove01]

I would better observe the range of a company's speakers to see what separates them at a double or triple price tag.
See for example some really nice speakers at Stereophile's review, both by Aerial Acoustics who seem to know what they're doing:

Aerial Acoustics 20T V2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements The quasi-anechoic measurements were all performed using DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone. The Aerial Acoustics 20T V2 is specified as having a voltage sensitivity of 90dB/2.83V/m; my estimate was somewhat lower, at 88dB(B)/2.83V/m on the...

www.stereophile.com

Aerial Acoustics Model 7T loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements My estimate of the Aerial Acoustics Model 7T's B-weighted sensitivity on its tweeter axis was 86.6dB/2.83V/m—significantly lower than the specified 89dB. The electrical impedance remains between 4 and 8 ohms over much of the audioband (fig.1), but drops to 3.5 ohms in the...

www.stereophile.com

It seems to me that what separates them is mostly meat, and as not everyone runs subs (or if they do, proper integration and time has to be added to price)

No joking now, that out of the box in-room response is a dream, it deserves every penny.

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subjectively, I really enjoy Aerial’s. I just recently upgraded my Model 6’s (little brother of 7’s) to the LR5’s when they were closing out the last of their stock. The 7’s are a fantastic speaker IHMO. I was set on the 7’s and Micheal Kelly talked me into the LR5’s. Very similar sound just much “bigger”, they absolutely fill the room (if that makes sense).

I always end up going back to Aerials (maybe bias - IDK). My subjective assessment is they seem to do most things and genres very well.

 

[mk05]

Me before the Big C

You tracked cars? Well, according to the science, analyzing/comparing speakers (system chain) in a room without proper room treatment would be like driving race cars with Cup2R on a track frozen over with ice. I think most people here would rather have you spend some money making a room that will HELP you hear things better (and then learn to room eq). FWIW, I am learning to do the same!

 

[2Sunny]

You tracked cars? Well, according to the science, analyzing/comparing speakers (system chain) in a room without proper room treatment would be like driving race cars with Cup2R on a track frozen over with ice. I think most people here would rather have you spend some money making a room that will HELP you hear things better (and then learn to room eq). FWIW, I am learning to do the same!

Yep even raced for a few years until I had a bad accident and realized I wasn't as good as I thought. You can skip to the end of the video if you want to see the accident that made me give up racing and stick to track days.

That's awesome that you're learning to track cars. I tell everyone it's the most fun one can have with your clothes on

You'll be happy to know I AM planning on building a new room for audio and I realize I have a TON to learn before I begin

Help me plan a dedicated room

 

[Travis]

Really if I boil this down to what's of interest to me, it's to find out whether or not those who claim they can hear the difference between a $10k speaker and a $20k speaker is true hence as I mentioned above I'm having the Blades delivered to a third party for professional testing so I will never actually have them in my house. Obviously as I said before none of this will make the least difference to anyone other than me. It's just satisfying an "itch" I have that I can afford to scratch and one that is providing some much needed entertainment at the moment.

If and when I can resume some "normal" activities I have plenty of "dry gunpowder" available and hobbies to spend them on

Me before the Big C

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I have about 80 hours in one of those, from a long, long time ago. I was out west and I really liked the single engine performance. I think I just read about a 414 accident where the pilot was just overwhelmed.

 

[2Sunny]

I have about 80 hours in one of those, from a long, long time ago. I was out west and I really liked the single engine performance. I think I just read about a 414 accident where the pilot was just overwhelmed.

Yeah. Even though I'm a retired pilot with 40 plus years of experience the 340 is a handful single pilot. Lucky me I actually taught my wife how to fly (that's how we met - I was her flight instructor) so she makes a fantastic co-pilot and seriously reduces my workload when we fly.

 

[Newman]

…Once I did that proper comparison I was easily able to pick a winner between the 2…

Here is how I think a "proper comparison" would differ from what you did:-
- no less than 3 different speakers involved.
- you don't know what any of them are.
- all room corrected to an agreed bass target curve right up to the transition frequency. (This should be a defacto point for today's audiophiles who are paying a lot and demand really high performance. If some speakers don't handle it well as the SPL goes up, then that's on them.)

Cheers

 

[Sokel]

subjectively, I really enjoy Aerial’s. I just recently upgraded my Model 6’s (little brother of 7’s) to the LR5’s when they were closing out the last of their stock. The 7’s are a fantastic speaker IHMO. I was set on the 7’s and Micheal Kelly talked me into the LR5’s. Very similar sound just much “bigger”, they absolutely fill the room (if that makes sense).

I always end up going back to Aerials (maybe bias - IDK). My subjective assessment is they seem to do most things and genres very well.

Having a Masters in Physics from MIT certainly helps been a speaker designer.
Been pragmatic about it on top of that also helps very much.

I love Aerial too so I'm maybe biased, US residents are lucky to have them.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

>20k speakers of low production brands implement top range components but due to the price tag they sell fewer units and commercial cost is high per sold unit.

<10k speakers of mass production brands could reach same level of quality because there are many cost they can distribute among the whole brand.

Recently I auditioned a Wilson Puppy and I was a bit disappointed. They didn’t sound much better than some 6k speakers (Mofi 888, Elysian 4…).

 

[Behrelec 37]

Miniyouuuu

Why are these substandard American speakers even mentioned by name? The price is ridiculously high, but the quality expertise is 20 years behind. Many people who have such speakers have practically paid for a vacuum of air, not for technical expertise.