Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[Doodski]

Yamaha have consistently made excellent kit... ever since I first encountered them in the 1980's....
But I have been unconvinced about their choices/decisions in processing.... also since the 1980's... (nothing recent has really changed my mind there!)

I was there when the first Yamaha surround sound dedicated components arrived and I sold them with good success. We could not keep them in stock because they sold fast. They where complex and required a bit of skill and then the stuff simplified and was not the same but Yamaha surround stuff was still a great seller.

Yamaha DSP-1 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GXAlan]

Yamaha have consistently made excellent kit... ever since I first encountered them in the 1980's....
But I have been unconvinced about their choices/decisions in processing.... also since the 1980's... (nothing recent has really changed my mind there!)

Do you believe that full range room EQ is the best way? Or do you also believe that correction should be limited to the transition frequency?

I have owned consumer level Trinnov, Dirac incl. DLBC, flagship Yamaha YPAO, Pioneer MCACC l, and Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with the iOS app. The only room EQ I haven’t used in a real world environment is Anthem ARC Genesis.

With good speakers in poor locations, it’s really hard to beat Yamaha. I have measured the SINAD from my CX-A5100 and at low voltages which represent real-world volumes with THX-spec gain, it’s SINAD is superior to the numbers published here for something like the AV10 and in my hands, better than my HTP-1 which is already one of the top performing AVP’s at low voltage.

“CinemaDSP HD3 with YPAO RSC 64-bit with precision EQ” really manipulates the sound in a way that is audible and enjoyable.

When I get a chance this summer, maybe I will do a binaural recording comparing a few different room EQ systems and offer a blind test.

 

[Dathzo]

In this particular example, we know the left channel is too loud at approximately 40 Hz,

It’s not at 40 Hz. Not very credible when Yamaha is making these type of mistakes

 

[GXAlan]

It’s not at 40 Hz. Not very credible when Yamaha is making these type of mistakes

Completely agree, esp. since YPAO does not do subwoofer integration in an automated fashion.

The main point was that it corrects for symmetry more than flatness and tries to look at peaks and harmonics relative to that peak.

As I said, it’s a marketing blog post not a technical one. The other post has the REW sweeps from SimplyHomeTheater which shows how the content above the transition frequency isn’t touched.

You don’t have to believe or not believe me. I am just sharing my subjective impressions as an owner of the CX-A5100 and HTP-1 (and SR250), and MiniDSP-ICE250. If I have time, I may try doing the blind binaural recording and doing a poll here and seeing how the science works out when running REW sweeps with different room EQ tech.

Yamaha marketing may be suspect, but they do have depth in their engineering capabilities.

Active Field Control Immersive Audio System - Yamaha USA

Active Field Control (AFC) is an acoustic conditioning system designed to adjust and enhance the sound of a space while making use of the natural acoustic properties of the existing structure.

usa.yamaha.com

 

[Dathzo]

Completely agree, esp. since YPAO does not do subwoofer integration in an automated fashion.

The main point was that it corrects for symmetry more than flatness and tries to look at peaks and harmonics relative to that peak.

As I said, it’s a marketing blog post not a technical one. The other post has the REW sweeps from SimplyHomeTheater which shows how the content above the transition frequency isn’t touched.

You don’t have to believe or not believe me. I am just sharing my subjective impressions as an owner of the CX-A5100 and HTP-1 (and SR250), and MiniDSP-ICE250. If I have time, I may try doing the blind binaural recording and doing a poll here and seeing how the science works out when running REW sweeps with different room EQ tech.

Yamaha marketing may be suspect, but they do have depth in their engineering capabilities.

Active Field Control Immersive Audio System - Yamaha USA

Active Field Control (AFC) is an acoustic conditioning system designed to adjust and enhance the sound of a space while making use of the natural acoustic properties of the existing structure.

usa.yamaha.com

I may have jumped too quickly… I actually find interesting the rationale of symmetry correction; it does make sense. Looking forward to doing the poll if you get the chance of putting it together.

 

[dlaloum]

Do you believe that full range room EQ is the best way? Or do you also believe that correction should be limited to the transition frequency?

Let me put it this way - in theory, I would say full range... - In practice I really am not sure.

My own alternative, since I am happy with the "voicing" of my main speakers, is to run Dirac Live using its default full range, however, I use the measured (above 500Hz) performance of my mains, as the target for all the other speakers...

So I intentionally try NOT to apply a "room target curve" - but rather try to ensure that the voicing / tonality of all speakers match that of my mains... hence, aside from the lower frequencies there is (or should be ) minimal messing about with the F/R.

Having said that, the first thing I noticed, when doing my very first Dirac setup out of the box (with the default Dirac target, etc...) was improved imaging, soundstage and dialogue clarity - all of which is in the midrange, not the bass - so this indicates benefits that are to be gained above and beyond the bass.

 

[IamJF]

This is also the lowest value that is normally used in recording studios to keep artifacts to a minimum during processing.

You would be surprised how much is recorded and produced in 48kHz. And do you know how these nice big membrane condenser microphones measure >10kHz ;-)

Nevertheless if that's your spec for a piece of gear - so it is. In 2024 it should be easy to get a chain at least at 96kHz sf.

 

[abdo123]

Cool. So which room correction systems out there support 192kHz and are available in a shipping AV processor/receiver today?

Trinnov does 96KHz afaik

 

[abdo123]

Did anything come up or change?

Are we still expecting ART in April?

 

[patoulol]

A little late It's going


to happen

 

[gorman]

With good speakers in poor locations, it’s really hard to beat Yamaha. I have measured the SINAD from my CX-A5100 and at low voltages which represent real-world volumes with THX-spec gain, it’s SINAD is superior to the numbers published here for something like the AV10 and in my hands, better than my HTP-1 which is already one of the top performing AVP’s at low voltage.

And what does SINAD have to do with room correction? Room correction treats extremely audible problems, SINAD for almost all extents and purposes, by now, measures the inaudible. It's a nice measure to have, it speaks about the quality of engineering but still... to each their own, I guess.

 

[GXAlan]

And what does SINAD have to do with room correction? Room correction treats extremely audible problems, SINAD for almost all extents and purposes, by now, measures the inaudible. It's a nice measure to have, it speaks about the quality of engineering but still... to each their own, I guess.

That’s exactly what I am saying. The Yamaha AV products here haven’t measured well and yet, in real homes it sounds great because Yamaha’s DSP is beneficial not harmful and YPAO was criticized for doing very little, and yet avoiding corrections above the Schroeder transition frequency is exactly what is advocated now.

Don’t let the SINAD scare you if you have speakers in non-standard locations and might benefit from Yamaha’s ability to handle that scenario. There are many retailers with in home trial support for Yamaha in the U.S.

 

[tjcinnamon]

The ART beta testing phase is completed. ART is fully compatible with AVRs starting from X3800H and up and It's now up to Masimo to decide when to release the FW (It should be sometime this year after April). As for Roon ready certification. I was told that it is expected to be added to all D&M models including older models starting from the X3400H.

Many D&M users have complained that HEOS does not support multichannel music streaming because it is hardware-coded to 2 channels only. To compensate for this limitation. Masimo has started working with HARMAN to certify most of their AVRs as Multichannel capable Roon endpoint. Dolby Atmos music via Amazon HD is also expected to be added along the line.

If you own a Denon X?400H AVR and have the latest FW update, you should notice that Roon is now detecting it as an uncertified device which could only be enabled using a special beta Roon software. Once the certification process is completed, you'll be able to play multichannel FLAC and DSD files using Roon directly (bit-perfect) into the compatible Denon AVRs.

At some point in the future, a new version of HEOS called HEOS+ is expected to be released which will bring significant features upgrades including lossless multichannel streaming support. I'm guessing the X?900H series will come with the HEOS+ included because it requires a hardware upgrade not just FW.

any updates?

 

[Frank207be]

any updates?

I'm also waiting for news. I got my 4th subwoofer ready last weekend so I'm ready!

 

[Exalix]

The ART beta testing phase is completed. ART is fully compatible with AVRs starting from X3800H and up and It's now up to Masimo to decide when to release the FW (It should be sometime this year after April). As for Roon ready certification. I was told that it is expected to be added to all D&M models including older models starting from the X3400H.

Many D&M users have complained that HEOS does not support multichannel music streaming because it is hardware-coded to 2 channels only. To compensate for this limitation. Masimo has started working with HARMAN to certify most of their AVRs as Multichannel capable Roon endpoint. Dolby Atmos music via Amazon HD is also expected to be added along the line.

If you own a Denon X?400H AVR and have the latest FW update, you should notice that Roon is now detecting it as an uncertified device which could only be enabled using a special beta Roon software. Once the certification process is completed, you'll be able to play multichannel FLAC and DSD files using Roon directly (bit-perfect) into the compatible Denon AVRs.

At some point in the future, a new version of HEOS called HEOS+ is expected to be released which will bring significant features upgrades including lossless multichannel streaming support. I'm guessing the X?900H series will come with the HEOS+ included because it requires a hardware upgrade not just FW.

Any news?

 

[Oddball]

Marantz AVRs/AVPs just got update days ago. No ART in that one. Not sure if correct but on some other forums they noted average time for update is close to 80 days, shortest was a bit less than 40. Apart from statistics, did not hear any new rumors. Official release date was not confirmed by D&M, so remains open. They did say that they want to push ART update for all compatible D&M products at once, which is quite a bit of models to test and make any adjustments necessary.

 

[tjcinnamon]

Talked to some Masimo guys at Axpona today. They met with Dirac guys yesterday (Dirac was not an exhibitor at Axpona). Apparently, Dirac is focusing on making it more consumer friendly (presumably reliable) because apparently the Storm results were inconsistent (i.e. took multiple runs). So sometime in 2024 but not in the immediate future is what I was told (obviously informally)

 

[dlaloum]

Talked to some Masimo guys at Axpona today. They met with Dirac guys yesterday (Dirac was not an exhibitor at Axpona). Apparently, Dirac is focusing on making it more consumer friendly (presumably reliable) because apparently the Storm results were inconsistent (i.e. took multiple runs). So sometime in 2024 but not in the immediate future is what I was told (obviously informally)

So the delays have moved from AVR/AVP manufacturer, back to Dirac....

Damn, too many snakes and not enough ladders...

Still it will provide more time for other manufacturers to get their stuff sorted and ready... Monoprice, Onkyo, NAD, JBL....

 

[multisport4me]

Talked to some Masimo guys at Axpona today. They met with Dirac guys yesterday (Dirac was not an exhibitor at Axpona). Apparently, Dirac is focusing on making it more consumer friendly (presumably reliable) because apparently the Storm results were inconsistent (i.e. took multiple runs). So sometime in 2024 but not in the immediate future is what I was told (obviously informally)

Crap.

 

[gorman]

Talked to some Masimo guys at Axpona today. They met with Dirac guys yesterday (Dirac was not an exhibitor at Axpona). Apparently, Dirac is focusing on making it more consumer friendly (presumably reliable) because apparently the Storm results were inconsistent (i.e. took multiple runs). So sometime in 2024 but not in the immediate future is what I was told (obviously informally)

Argh... not the update I feverishly clicked to read when I got my notification. :-(