Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[multisport4me]

It is crazy they make you pay not only with money but also by surrendering a key and useful feature.

?? I'm trying to understand your point. The first part seems to mean that you think DLBC should be free. The second is even more baffling because you cannot use Audyssey and Dirac at the same time. If want to use the Audyssey features, then use Audyssey - they aren't taking it away even if you buy Dirac. You can even store Audyssey cals in speaker one slots and Dirac in speaker 2 slots. So....what are trying to say?

 

[GXAlan]

?? I'm trying to understand your point. The first part seems to mean that you think DLBC should be free. The second is even more baffling because you cannot use Audyssey and Dirac at the same time. If want to use the Audyssey features, then use Audyssey - they aren't taking it away even if you buy Dirac. You can even store Audyssey cals in speaker one slots and Dirac in speaker 2 slots. So....what are trying to say?

His unspoken point is that everyone should buy the HTP-1 to get loudness + Dirac.

I have yet to see a head to head DLBC vs MultEQ-X. I am sure we will start to see user posts in the next month or so.

 

[jhaider]

?? I'm trying to understand your point. The first part seems to mean that you think DLBC should be free. The second is even more baffling because you cannot use Audyssey and Dirac at the same time. If want to use the Audyssey features, then use Audyssey - they aren't taking it away even if you buy Dirac. You can even store Audyssey cals in speaker one slots and Dirac in speaker 2 slots. So....what are trying to say?

They absolutely are taking away loudness compensation if you modernize the room correction

I see no reason why that would have to be the case, just because of the brand on the loudness comp.

 

[multisport4me]

His unspoken point is that everyone should buy the HTP-1 to get loudness + Dirac.

I have yet to see a head to head DLBC vs MultEQ-X. I am sure we will start to see user posts in the next month or so.

We'll have to pry your HTP-1 from your cold, dead, hands to get you to even touch an AV10, won't we?

I admit, I liked that feature when I had the HTP-1. I suppose if I feel the need for something like that I could just create an Audyssey cal in a speaker 1 slot and use dynamic EQ. But the loudness on HTP-1 seemed more effective, if not, brute force, on the HTP-1 by my recollection.

 

[Tafelberg]

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[GXAlan]

We'll have to pry your HTP-1 from your cold, dead, hands to get you to even touch an AV10, won't we?

I admit, I liked that feature when I had the HTP-1. I suppose if I feel the need for something like that I could just create an Audyssey cal in a speaker 1 slot and use dynamic EQ. But the loudness on HTP-1 seemed more effective, if not, brute force, on the HTP-1 by my recollection.

If you find my posts somewhere discussing with @jhaider, I am a pretty big Marantz fan. I had both the PM-10 and SA-10 and only sold them to fund my Meyer Sound gear.

I would probably run Audyssey not Dirac on the AV10 if I had the AV10. The analog input is nice as is the added reliability since I occasionally need to reboot the HTP-1 still. I have seen no meaningful benefit with DLBC over plain Dirac in my particular room, although ART should be a benefit.

That said, the AV10 is much more expensive than the HTP-1 and I would only take the AV10 at $4K.

 

[multisport4me]

If you find my posts somewhere discussing with @jhaider, I am a pretty big Marantz fan. I had both the PM-10 and SA-10 and only sold them to fund my Meyer Sound gear.

I would probably run Audyssey not Dirac on the AV10 if I had the AV10. The analog input is nice as is the added reliability since I occasionally need to reboot the HTP-1 still. I have seen no meaningful benefit with DLBC over plain Dirac in my particular room, although ART should be a benefit.

That said, the AV10 is much more expensive than the HTP-1 and I would only take the AV10 at $4K.

All in jest, Sir. All in jest.

 

[dlaloum]

Additionally, the HTP-1 has loudness compensation as does Audyssey, but I don’t think a lot of products with Dirac have loudness options. The pre-Harman Arcam’s had Dolby Volume but I don’t see that advertised on the new ones.

On the Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer range, there is definitely Dolby Loudness... as well as "late night" mode (aka dolby volume)

 

[Frank207be]

His unspoken point is that everyone should buy the HTP-1 to get loudness + Dirac.

I have yet to see a head to head DLBC vs MultEQ-X. I am sure we will start to see user posts in the next month or so.

I have both and I´ll do a full calibration next week. Audyssey MultEQ served me well but reduces the subwoofer levels unjustly as it assumes that 4 subs give a 9dB boost in a room. My first feeling is that DLBC does it´s job aligning the subs as advertized and delivers a tighther bass with more punch.

 

[ivo.f.doma]

On the Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer range, there is definitely Dolby Loudness... as well as "late night" mode (aka dolby volume)

Even if Dirac is on?

 

[GXAlan]

On the Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer range, there is definitely Dolby Loudness... as well as "late night" mode (aka dolby volume)

I am not seeing this on the RZ70 or LX805

https://assets.onkyo-av.com/product-manuals/TX-RZ70_En_Manual_29404069A.pdf?v=1684871097

https://assets.klipsch.com/product-manuals/VSX-LX805_Manual_En_29404079_Elite.pdf

Dolby “Loudness” is just dialog normalization. That’s all I see in the manual. This just changes the volume a bit digitally across the board.

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“Late Night” is just dynamic range compression.

“Dolby Volume” is a completely different technology.

https://professional.dolby.com/siteassets/pdfs/dolby-volume-tech-paper.pdf

So, my comment that HTP-1 with its own homebrew loudness and the AVR850 era Arcam’s are the only way to have Dirac plus loudness compensation.

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/avr850/User%20Manual/AVR860850550390250_MANUAL_SH275_E-F-D-N-ES-IT-R-SC_7.pdf

 

[Sal1950]

The big advantage of ART over DLBC is that it can improve bass variability seat to seat as high as 150 Hz. But I am not sure that it will make a difference if your main listening position is relatively narrow.

They absolutely are taking away loudness compensation if you modernize the room correction

I have no idea if loudness comp is being forcibly removed or not on some platforms
but if it is I really can't understand why?
IMHO a well calibrated loudness compensation is almost nearly as important as many of the other functions of a good DRC application.
Of course it should be switchable to a users preference, but the fact that our loudness perception changes with SPL needs no justification. Keeping the perceived impact of bass throughout the playback levels seems as important (to me) as keeping the
playback curve reasonably flat. I do find it unfortunate that the option for quality loudness compensation would not be available on almost every system.

The big advantage of ART over DLBC is that it can improve bass variability seat to seat as high as 150 Hz. But I am not sure that it will make a difference if your main listening position is relatively narrow.

I would think more important to the Movie/HT crowd than the mainly Music listener since HT tends to be more of a group watching thing where serious music tends to be more of a private deal.

 

[GXAlan]

I would think more important to the Movie/HT crowd than the mainly Music listener since HT tends to be more of a group watching thing where serious music tends to be more of a private deal.

Great point. I also think it is bragging rights more than anything else too. If you see a live unamplified band or go to a symphony, you don’t care if you are a little off center. I know you can measure bass differences in different seats, but within the context of overall enjoyment, I am not fully convinced that it matters that much.

It’s for that reason that I really think AV10 + Audyssey + app to remove midrange compensation and add a bass boost and then running dynamic volume will be a great overall setup for a lot of people.

On the Dirac side, maybe if you have a room where you run everything at THX Reference volumes, so you never need loudness compensation, you are OK too. It’s when you want to listen at more reasonable volumes that it may make sense to load a smiley shaped target curve that applies loudness compensation somewhat.

But I am not just talking the talk. I love my HTP-1 and I highly recommend it, especially when it goes on sale. It’s very reliable and the only issues I ever have are with WiFi dropping the IP address sometimes requiring a reboot.

That said, I would happily do a 1:1 exchange for a Marantz AV10 with anyone who wants to make that trade.

 

[TimoJ]

I would think more important to the Movie/HT crowd than the mainly Music listener since HT tends to be more of a group watching thing where serious music tends to be more of a private deal.

Dirac ART makes a major improvement to music listening. Precise impactfull bass without room modes.

 

[GXAlan]

Dirac ART makes a major improvement to music listening. Precise impactfull bass without room modes.

Will ART be available for the PC or Mac for music listening?

Right now, as far as anyone can tell, the only confirmed ART implementation is Storm Audio and the HTP-1 was in development with no official beta available yet or target release date yet.

 

[TimoJ]

Will ART be available for the PC or Mac for music listening?

Only Dirac knows that. But they did bring DLBC also for PC/Mac, so I would assume that the same happens with ART.
Do you know when PC/Mac DLBC appeared vs. AVP/AVR versions? Maybe that would give some indication when to expect ART.

 

[peng]

Only Dirac knows that. But they did bring DLBC also for PC/Mac, so I would assume that the same happens with ART.
Do you know when PC/Mac DLBC appeared vs. AVP/AVR versions? Maybe that would give some indication when to expect ART.

From past experience, their priority is the AVP/AVR, they had DLBC long before the PC standalone version users got theirs.

 

[Sal1950]

Dirac ART makes a major improvement to music listening. Precise impactfull bass without room modes.

OK, so how BIG an improvement over a well configured Audyssey + app below say 200hz.
Don't mean to slam Dirac but to listen to it's fanboys you'd think all else is total garbage. I know what
I get here both by measurement and listening and the results are damn good.
So what exactly will x600 % buy me?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

OK, so how BIG an improvement over a well configured Audyssey + app below say 200hz.
Don't mean to slam Dirac but to listen to it's fanboys you'd think all else is total garbage. I know what
I get here both by measurement and listening and the results are damn good.
So what exactly will x600 % buy me?

Correct. There is hardly a thread here with so much anecdotes and so little evidence/ facts.

Would be great if someone could do before and after Dirac / Audyssey sweeps and post the results. Or point me towards them if I didn’t see them.

 

[TimoJ]

OK, so how BIG an improvement over a well configured Audyssey + app below say 200hz.
Don't mean to slam Dirac but to listen to it's fanboys you'd think all else is total garbage. I know what
I get here both by measurement and listening and the results are damn good.
So what exactly will x600 % buy me?

I have no experience of Audyssey. Regular Dirac (and DLBC ) vs. Audyssey may be a matter of taste or Audyssey is better if Dirac AVP is missing loudness. But Dirac ART is something different. It's bass decay times where the difference is.