Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[pogo]

ART does not care if the frequency support is a sub or a speaker.

However, the co-optimization is not only sub and this is very often forgotten. Up to 150Hz is currently used. And higher frequencies will follow later.

 

[Dj7675]

However, the co-optimization is not only sub and this is very often forgotten. Up to 150Hz is currently used. And higher frequencies will follow later.

Higher frequencies may come later (or might not). I used the beta which had 300hz has the cutoff frequency. I tried up to 300hz. I didn't hear anything necessarily objectionable but would want to spend more time with it because I think in some systems going that high would be an issue with audibility of the higher support frequencies. Have you had a chance to listen/use an ART system yet?

 

[Oddball]

Dirac did post waterfall charts and such...

But they also pointed out that like many things speaker/room related, there are too many variables to be able to make guarantees...

I would suggest thinking of it like ABS (anti lock brakes) on cars... you can talk about (and measure) reduced braking distances, but you can't really specify a braking distance for ABS vs non ABS, as that would depend on the tyres used, car weight, car suspension, road surface, wet vs dry, etc... etc...

Amps and DAC's basically work in a single dimension - with well defined parameters, which most of us can (to some degree) understand.

RoomEQ works in 4 dimensions (including time!) - and has enough complexity, that most of the people designing in this area come from a university mathematics or physics background.

Add to that, the parameters that are under the manufacturers control (not Dirac) - such as where/when to mix and rout bass... and things get tricky. - There seems to be an inherent tension between manufacturer bass mixing and routing and Dirac handling of shared load, LFE and all channels bass....

Still, it shows up one of Dirac's weaknesses - they need a really good communicator to help with explaining the highly complex, in a simplified form that the rest of us can understand!!

Really good analogy with ABS.

Really bad news that ART does not integrate into Storm bass management, which makes me question the whole concept. If they did just DLBC+cancelations, that will have limited use. Understand how some people will rave about its tremendous impact and benefit, just as most did for DLBC. And that might generally be true for the bookshelf bed channel systems - which apparently are the most predominant in the HT world.

For the very few that run bigger tower systems - Storm bass management (and D&M bass management to some extent) gives you a very granular control over how you want it done. Like medium rare, with fries or egg on the side, another side of veggie or fries or beans, etc. If you put that in the black box, mix it and say - well it tastes great, not sure that I feel like eating that dish. I will not go bankrupt for $1k spend on ART, but the way they are marketing it right now, I can't really see why to spend that cash. My system certainly sounds exquisite, and getting better by the day, all without the ART (or DLBC). While I have curiosity for ART, I don't see that it is equally matched on the other side with providing a more in-depth answers how it really works in practice.

In other words, have never seen a worse marketing campaign for a $1k product.

 

[Oddball]

Create a support ticket with your Dirac project and ask them to do a simulation of what ART may do with your project. I did that when I was going to return DLBC. I would post my email, but email at the bottom says it's confidential.



Agree. The other question is what actual content there is that low. That is, running large + sub where my large speakers dip down to 35 Hz versus DLBC MSO where the subs can fill below 35 Hz doesn't make a big difference for movies since there is very little bass content below 35 Hz that is in the bed layer and not the LFE layer.

You do need a processor that will route LFE input into your main speakers as well.

Thanks for the tip. I might just do that once it becomes available on Marantz. But as you noted, that would include purchasing Dirac - do you think they would refund the whole pack (DL+DLBC+ART) just because it would not perform to my expectations?

 

[GXAlan]

Thanks for the tip. I might just do that once it becomes available on Marantz. But as you noted, that would include purchasing Dirac - do you think they would refund the whole pack (DL+DLBC+ART) just because it would not perform to my expectations?

There is a STRICT 30 day window. But yes.

 

[Oddball]

Also, just to clarify - my beef with Dirac ART is with respect to advanced bass management options for big systems with towers as bed channels and adequate (before ART) sub support. I don't think that this rant impacts the typical system with bookshelves and multiple capable subs, but given the concept of "support" subs one can never be too careful.

While some people might be willing to invest to "conform" for ART setup, some might not and that is the whole question - is it $1k or $5k or more investment.

 

[Oddball]

The biggest hurdle under ART is not having potent setups. For example, if you have four Dali Kores in the corners and good amplification, you should immediately get a very good result, as the support settings are also less of a problem here.
In addition, DLBC is not required

Many thanks for your feedback and that is also something I have been thinking of. I don't have Dali Kortes in the corners, but have more than capable speakers and amps for the bed layer as well as 4 capable subs. It would be really useful to understand what is the setup that is the base for your comments and what EQ and bass management are your using.

 

[pogo]

My setup, see below.
No bass management, only DLRC is used with my passive sub.

 

[Oddball]

Well that's swell - not sure how many M6000 you have on hand, but they do seem to be a powerful thingy for sure.

DLRC - if that means Dirac Live Room Correction, will do absolutely nothing for such a setup. And that is my exactly my point. Comparing ART with either DLRC or DLBC is really giving you no reference point where ART would not come up by a big margin. Both DLRC or DLBC are just built around the crossover point optimization, thus big bed channels are just not being used except for "smoother" blending into the crossover framework.

Once you step out of the Dirac world, Storm and D&M (especially as of recent) have different bass routing options that are/could be taking full advantage of your bed channel speakers low end capabilities. Since I am using the D&M option, I am just wondering what is that ART would do to my system - no wink needed. I could definitely use some lower decay below 40hz, but honestly not sure how much and at what expense.

 

[pogo]

Have you had a chance to listen/use an ART system yet?

No.

 

[Dj7675]

This I agree with fully. Focal Astral 16 is still lacking Dirac ART support despite being the same hardware platform as the Storm Audio. This does suggest at a "business" reason for delays.

Very few people waiting for ART are able to move to something like Trinnov while being inpatient.

Last firmware update from Storm added support for Bryston and Focal branded units..

• Allow SP4 (Bryston) and Astral (Focal) upgradeability to StormAudio firmware via license.

 

[GXAlan]

Last firmware update from Storm added support for Bryston and Focal branded units..

• Allow SP4 (Bryston) and Astral (Focal) upgradeability to StormAudio firmware via license.

That’s awesome!