Devialet Phantom Reactor 900 Measurements (now with Spinorama)

[Sancus]

It's clumsy, but you could just set the volume the same on each unit and run mono RCA to 3.5mm cables. There's also a custom version with a euroblock connector for integrators. But yeah, not ideal.

Right, according to forum reports though the lowest you can get latency to on a Reactor in their "normal" modes is 60ms. There is some confusing procedure that maybe gets you down to 1ms IF you use single channel(only) optical inputs, which is where the crazy Dante setup comes in. But it's not clear to me if that actually works right on Reactors or only the other higher end ones...

Also, if you do any video gaming, even 60ms of audio latency is probably a dealbreaker.

 

[napilopez]

Right, according to forum reports though the lowest you can get latency to on a Reactor in their "normal" modes is 60ms. There is some confusing procedure that maybe gets you down to 1ms IF you use single channel(only) optical inputs, which is where the crazy Dante setup comes in. But it's not clear to me if that actually works right on Reactors or only the other higher end ones...

Also, if you do any video gaming, even 60ms of audio latency is probably a dealbreaker.

For sure. I tried to use the originals with my digital piano and it was an immediate no go.

 

[ofrappier]

Hi,

With new DOS 2.9.0, firmware, i use optical TOSLINK input of my right REACTOR 600 and this send in WIFI the left channel to the other REACTOR 600 paired in stereo:

the latency is 190ms but with AUX optical input, latency can be lowered at 60ms.
60 ms is not stable.

But 70/80ms are ok and stable for me, not 60ms

so i've with USB->TOSLINK : 7ms + 70ms, so 77 ms

Real Piano Latency is : 20 ms / 30ms
http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/askenflt/measure.html
( I set my MOTU for Pianoteq at 8 ms to have 2X8 = 16ms + midi so 20ms like a real piano with my 2XJBL308)

(With Optical input and 2XREACTOR 6 in STEREO (the second in Wifi))

(The sound of those speakers (DEVIALET REACTOR 600) are really FULL RANGE......and very nice : incredible for the price....)

But 70ms latency with optical input is not a problem for VIDEO

Regards,

Olivier F.

 

[Frank Dernie]

These speakers are really interesting, but setting them up for HT or surround with any other types of speakers seems like a total nightmare due to the input requirements and reported latency.

I know the designer and bought a pair of the original Phantoms from the first batch. When I said how good I thought they would be as surround/subs in a HT system he said the latency made them all but impossible to integrate into an existing system. Mine are old enough to have no blutooth so can't run the new V2 OS btw.
I see they now have a surround sound system on their appalling web site with 2 Phantoms and 3 Reactors but I haven't asked him about it.

 

[napilopez]

I know the designer and bought a pair of the original Phantoms from the first batch. When I said how good I thought they would be as surround/subs in a HT system he said the latency made them all but impossible to integrate into an existing system. Mine are old enough to have no blutooth so can't run the new V2 OS btw.
I see they now have a surround sound system on their appalling web site with 2 Phantoms and 3 Reactors but I haven't asked him about it.

You can definitely make it work. It's just a pain =] Most reliable way would probably just be to split the L/R signal before reaching the speakers, then setting the same volume and latency in the app. It's clumsy, but doable.

Of course, doing so somewhat defeats the convenience of having wireless speakers but I personaly believe the reactors are worth their price even without any of the wifi shenanigans, if only because there isn't the same combination of bass/spl/size/directivity/FR for the price elsewhere as far as I know. I actually wish devialet sold these sans wifi capabilities, and just as plain old low latency studio monitors with a few EQ switches. Could probably make a bunch of money that way.

 

[Frank Dernie]

You can definitely make it work. It's just a pain =] Most reliable way would probably just be to split the L/R signal before reaching the speakers, then setting the same volume and latency in the app. It's clumsy, but doable.

I would have liked to use mine as rear speakers and Subs in a system with my existing Marantz pre-pro which has analogue outputs. I have to use the Dialog and app at least for volume setting so not much use for me.

 

[napilopez]

I would have liked to use mine as rear speakers and Subs in a system with my existing Marantz pre-pro which has analogue outputs. I have to use the Dialog and app at least for volume setting so not much use for me.

I couldn't stand the requirement for the dialog with the original Phantoms. Never have I had a speaker I liked the sound of so much but so abhored the user experience. At least the reactors give you more flexibility.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I couldn't stand the requirement for the dialog with the original Phantoms. Never have I had a speaker I liked the sound of so much but so abhored the user experience. At least the reactors give you more flexibility.

The only thing I don't like is having a computer or app as the interface.
Apart from early firmware bugs the system has worked OK for me.
I would use them more often if I bought the remote volume control, probably.

 

[napilopez]

The only thing I don't like is having a computer or app as the interface.
Apart from early firmware bugs the system has worked OK for me.
I would use them more often if I bought the remote volume control, probably.

From my perspective, if your system requires buying a separate $300 device just to play stereo and you can't control volume on them without a separate device, that's a problem.

I also almost couldn't believe it when Devialet released the reactors without stereo support out of the box. I just don't understand some of the choices Devialet makes. But who knows, maybe they were gunning for the harman blind test market

 

[Juhazi]

With an AV receiver/pre it should be easy to add latency/distance to other speakers. That's what I do with my minidsp-controlled active mains., but I also use analog out for actives. Digital out doesn't follow volume setting of AV, that's actually the main problem. And by the way I had one AV receiver that had fixed analog out level too, had to cancel the purchase. Using speaker outs would be too risky.

I am not afraid of extra ADDAs, so I don't qualify as audiophile, I guesss...

 

[ofrappier]

Hi,

With new DOS 2.9.0, firmware, i use optical TOSLINK input of my right REACTOR 600 and this send in WIFI the left channel to the other REACTOR 600 paired in stereo:

the latency is 190ms but with AUX optical input, latency can be lowered at 60ms.
60 ms is not stable.

But 70/80ms are ok and stable for me, not 60ms

so i've with USB->TOSLINK : 7ms + 70ms, so 77 ms

Real Piano Latency is : 20 ms / 30ms
http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/askenflt/measure.html
( I set my MOTU for Pianoteq at 8 ms to have 2X8 = 16ms + midi so 20ms like a real piano with my 2XJBL308)

(With Optical input and 2XREACTOR 6 in STEREO (the second in Wifi))

(The sound of those speakers (DEVIALET REACTOR 600) are really FULL RANGE......and very nice : incredible for the price....)

But 70ms latency with optical input is not a problem for VIDEO

Regards,

Olivier F.

Now, with 2.9, i've discover a better config, not seen in Devialet Tutorial :

Optical to the right Phantom, AUX activated to Right in Devialet smartphone app, and Ethernet câble between PHANTOM LEFT to RIGHT, and latency can go to 60ms without any pop/drop (because the ETHERNET cable is used instead wifi between left en right, when plugged, and keep the Stereo config preset of the smartphone app)

 

[Thomas savage]

From my perspective, if your system requires buying a separate $300 device just to play stereo and you can't control volume on them without a separate device, that's a problem.

I also almost couldn't believe it when Devialet released the reactors without stereo support out of the box. I just don't understand some of the choices Devialet makes. But who knows, maybe they were gunning for the harman blind test market

Gunning for the huge demand for a one speaker solution.

No one I know listens in stereo at home , folks that want that and are ok with the domestic compromise of slaving a room to speakers are very much in the minority and least we forget many of those willing will have other halfs that are not.

 

[ofrappier]

From my perspective, if your system requires buying a separate $300 device just to play stereo and you can't control volume on them without a separate device, that's a problem.

I also almost couldn't believe it when Devialet released the reactors without stereo support out of the box. I just don't understand some of the choices Devialet makes. But who knows, maybe they were gunning for the harman blind test market

hi, the Stereo is now supported with new DOS 2.9, without bugs, and new Devialet app for smartphone/TAB. (Without Dialog.... they don't sell Dialog anymore ...)

And i've 60ms latency whit 2.9 firmware (Latency can be set in a menu in Devialet app.) . (Ethernet between speakers, and one connected to optical, selected in AUX input in Devialet app after configured a Stereo ROOM name pair)

I think it's more safe to use ethernet between speakers that wifi.

60ms : wifi drop out, connection loose
60ms : Ethernet between left and right : stable , no drop out, better sound
(The ethernet câble is detected in Stereo mode, and take priority to the WIFI, but not explained in any VIDEO Devialet YOUTUBE TUTORIALS)

 

[ofrappier]

hi napilopez,

Strange Phase ? no FIR ? measurement of my Reactor 600, DOS 2.10 , Outdoor free space, 1 meter / front :

UnWrap phase of Reactor 600 2.10

And WRAP PHASE :

As if they where a Crossover at 73Hz and 281 Hz, LR4....
2 speakers or 3 speakers ?

What they don't align phase with FIR, Why Devialet ? (60 ms of latency, and no FIR ?)

However, the Group delay seems to be correct :

Regards,

O.

 

[napilopez]

hi napilopez,

Strange Phase ? no FIR ? measurement of my Reactor 600, DOS 2.10 , Outdoor free space, 1 meter / front :

UnWrap phase of Reactor 600 2.10
View attachment 61841

And WRAP PHASE :

View attachment 61842


As if they where a Crossover at 72,5 Hz and 308 Hz, LR4....
2 speakers or 3 speakers ?

What they don't align phase with FIR, Why Devialet ? (60 ms of latency, and no FIR ?)

However, the Group delay seems to be correct :

View attachment 61843

Regards,

O.

Can't give you a good answer; I can only imagine it has something to do with the DSP choices devialet made. The crossover is at 525Hz last I checked. Maybe someone more knowledgeable has a better explanation =]

 

[QMuse]

hi napilopez,

Strange Phase ? no FIR ? measurement of my Reactor 600, DOS 2.10 , Outdoor free space, 1 meter / front :

UnWrap phase of Reactor 600 2.10
View attachment 61841

And WRAP PHASE :

View attachment 61842


As if they where a Crossover at 72,5 Hz and 308 Hz, LR4....
2 speakers or 3 speakers ?

What they don't align phase with FIR, Why Devialet ? (60 ms of latency, and no FIR ?)

However, the Group delay seems to be correct :

View attachment 61843

View attachment 61849


Regards,

O.

Can you please post mdat file? (change extension from .mdat to .txt as that is the only extension acceoted by forum software).

P.S. I wouldn't really say GD is stellar but it doesn't look too bad either. Hard to tell from your graph.

 

[ofrappier]

Can you please post mdat file? (change extension from .mdat to .txt as that is the only extension acceoted by forum software).

P.S. I wouldn't really say GD is stellar but it doesn't look too bad either. Hard to tell from your graph.

I've just corrected, the delay alignement : Crossover at 73Hz and 281 Hz, LR4.... with A Delay detected at 58ms with REW or SMAART, (60 ms set in Devialet APP)

And here the exeport .txt attached

 

[QMuse]

And here the exeport .txt attached

There is no impulse response in that file. Can you please post your original REW file with .mdat extension? Change extensions from .mdat to .txt so that forum software allows you to post it.

 

[ofrappier]

There is no impulse response in that file. Can you please post your original REW file with .mdat extension? Change extensions from .mdat to .txt so that forum software allows you to post it.

Hi,

See attached file, Change to .txt to .mdat, it should open in REW, tell me

 

[QMuse]

Hi,

See attached file, Change to .txt to .mdat, it should open in REW, tell me

It works, thank you! Let me have a look at it..