D
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100 dB @ 2m. would demand 100 % load on these. Would I like something that's at its limits, even at peaks? -OP must decide.
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Portable HiFi/small PA system - Devialet Phantom I?
- Thread starter jordant
- Start date
100 dB @ 2m. would demand 100 % load on these. Would I like something that's at its limits, even at peaks? -OP must decide.
D
Deleted member 48726
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If only something exists that is purpose made for what OP wants!?
-What could it be.. Where should he look.. NOT at monitors and design statements that's for sure.
@jordant
This is PA territory. Look at PA gear.
- Portable
- High power
- Room filling sound for a small party
- Easy connection for a DJ deck
-What could it be.. Where should he look.. NOT at monitors and design statements that's for sure.
@jordant
This is PA territory. Look at PA gear.
AlfaNovember
Member
I'm happy to pick small, loud, and good sound - and give up on the cheap part
Get ahold of Scott Hinson, commission a set of his MEH (pdf link) speakers, or whatever he suggests. (If he's not too busy building PA systems for NFL teams) I've heard the speakers at Burning Amp 2022 event; it was one of those truly memorable step-function experiences, like a going from a slushbox Toyota Corolla to a Dodge Viper. Bonkers power at astonishingly low audible distortion, in cabinets about the size of a carry-on suitcase.
The Bose F1 812 is good option especially if you can EQ with your Trinnov. That said, the durability of the ameythest as you bring it around different places is risky.
The JBL 708p is a monitor that works well as a PA speaker for 20 people. It doesn’t get loud enough for big rooms, but it is easy to carry sound and setup and double as a near field monitor when you are not running a gig.
The Meyer Sound Ultra X20 is a great option if you have the budget.
Penelinfi
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And also factor in what abuse the speakers may take - dancing or drunk patrons, food and drinks, bumps and scrapes from being moved around.
DSJR
Major Contributor
I like his writing style and have to say I'd love to hear a 'domesticated finish' speaker based on his ideas as they seem honest and genuine. 'Shlushbox Corolla' in speaker terms? yep, I can go with that
- Thread Starter
- #27
Thanks everyone - Don't worry, thinking about it more I have gone off the Phantoms - on top of the other limitations y'all mentioned, the optical cables and coax-to-optical converters to run them would be annoying as hell, seems like a recipe for disaster. Limiting the search space to proper pro gear...
Mostly for my own benefit, here's how the top options are looking for me right now:
Compact PA Speaker tops + sub
+ Loads of sound output, durability
- Need a sub for bass, sound quality for low SPL album listening may be compromised , bulky
Options:
- 2x Yamaha DZR10 + DXS15XLF - 2x 315 x 537 x 345 17.9kg and 450 x 587 x 600 40kg
- that sub is too heavy, find a different one...
- QSC K8.2, etc
Interesting, on spinorama the QSCs score really well - https://www.spinorama.org/?sort=scoreEQ&reverse=false&power=active&shape=liveportable . Not sure how meaningful that is
Studio Monitor with high-SPL capability
+More bass extension, sub may not be needed, sound quality
- SPL may not be enough, if really pushing it...
Options:
- JBL 708P , really nice in its bass frequency extension, output, and small size + weight. Biggest issue - I'm seeing a lot of reports of the powered components failing. Maybe not a real issue or it's been fixed, but it's a lot of reports!
- Focal Trio6 BE - A bit bigger and almost twice the weight as the JBL, but has a bit more low bass extension and looks... pretty nice actually!
- Neumann KH 310 A - Horizontal, that seems not ideal? Otherwise, it's 13.5kg and has nice bass extension...
- Genelec 8350A
There is also a bunch of ones which look interesting, Meyer Ultra X20, Mesanovic RTM-10s etc - but I can't find much info on the availability of those in New Zealand, it may be possible to import them but I would be buying them without ever hearing them first. So I'm discounting those for now
Questions I have remaining at the moment:
- Do I need multiple subs, if going that route? Seen conflicting reports on the usefulness of this indoors.
- Is there a big enough difference in SQ between PA and the monitors to care about for my uses?
Mostly for my own benefit, here's how the top options are looking for me right now:
Compact PA Speaker tops + sub
+ Loads of sound output, durability
- Need a sub for bass, sound quality for low SPL album listening may be compromised , bulky
Options:
- 2x Yamaha DZR10 + DXS15XLF - 2x 315 x 537 x 345 17.9kg and 450 x 587 x 600 40kg
- that sub is too heavy, find a different one...
- QSC K8.2, etc
Interesting, on spinorama the QSCs score really well - https://www.spinorama.org/?sort=scoreEQ&reverse=false&power=active&shape=liveportable . Not sure how meaningful that is
Studio Monitor with high-SPL capability
+More bass extension, sub may not be needed, sound quality
- SPL may not be enough, if really pushing it...
Options:
- JBL 708P , really nice in its bass frequency extension, output, and small size + weight. Biggest issue - I'm seeing a lot of reports of the powered components failing. Maybe not a real issue or it's been fixed, but it's a lot of reports!
- Focal Trio6 BE - A bit bigger and almost twice the weight as the JBL, but has a bit more low bass extension and looks... pretty nice actually!
- Neumann KH 310 A - Horizontal, that seems not ideal? Otherwise, it's 13.5kg and has nice bass extension...
- Genelec 8350A
There is also a bunch of ones which look interesting, Meyer Ultra X20, Mesanovic RTM-10s etc - but I can't find much info on the availability of those in New Zealand, it may be possible to import them but I would be buying them without ever hearing them first. So I'm discounting those for now
Questions I have remaining at the moment:
- Do I need multiple subs, if going that route? Seen conflicting reports on the usefulness of this indoors.
- Is there a big enough difference in SQ between PA and the monitors to care about for my uses?
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There is also a bunch of ones which look interesting, Meyer Ultra X20… but I can't find much info on the availability of those in New Zealand, it may be possible to import them but I would be buying them without ever hearing them first. So I'm discounting those for now
Owen Ironside and Ampd Electronics
Meyer Sound has announced the appointment of Owen Ironside to the position of Sales Manager, Australia and New Zealand. He will assume responsibility for all Meyer Sound sales “down under,” supporting the company’s new network of direct resellers throughout the two countries.
meyersound.com
I bet you could find a place to try them out if you tell them you have KEF Blades for comparison. I do know that @Mr. Widget who has heard and owned a lot of speakers uses the Ultra X20 for his own home use.
What is your clientele exactly?
There is also a bunch of ones which look interesting, Meyer Ultra X20, Mesanovic RTM-10s etc - but I can't find much info on the availability of those in New Zealand, it may be possible to import them but I would be buying them without ever hearing them first. So I'm discounting those for now
I use the Meyer Ultra X20s in my home theater and they sound shockingly good with a little help from my Lyngdorf's Room Perfect and hand tuned EQ, but my vote for you would be to go with the JBLs. The 708p will probably do most rooms justice especially if you can add a bit of boundary reinforcement and if the room is larger or you can't place the speakers near walls/corners you could add a sub.
- Thread Starter
- #30
Good point on the comparison and finding the distributor - perhaps I should not discount the Ultra X20s so soon, they are astonishingly small. I guess the USW-112P would be the natural pairing for them?Owen Ironside and Ampd Electronics
Meyer Sound has announced the appointment of Owen Ironside to the position of Sales Manager, Australia and New Zealand. He will assume responsibility for all Meyer Sound sales “down under,” supporting the company’s new network of direct resellers throughout the two countries.
I bet you could find a place to try them out if you tell them you have KEF Blades for comparison. I do know that @Mr. Widget who has heard and owned a lot of speakers uses the Ultra X20 for his own home use.
What is your clientele exactly?
Clientele is, uh.. me and how ever many friends happen to be around! Unlikely to go over 20 people so it's more about getting a smallish area sounding really good than covering a huge room.
- Thread Starter
- #31
No concerns with reliability on the 708p? https://gearspace.com/board/high-end/1251953-jbl-708p-4-6-monitors-have-failed-since-purchase.html and https://gearspace.com/board/post-production-forum/1377193-jbl-708p-have-been-out-stock-ages.html etc. To be fair, it seems most of the ones failing may be earlier built ones, and with JBL having to repair so many of them hopefully they have fixed the design/manufacturing flaw by this point...
Yes I do. They certainly are not going to last as long as Meyer Sound's products, but they are far less costly and do come with a warranty.
Congratulations on knowing 20 people.
Every time I have tried to get more than 5 people to listen to music at least 3 start a conversation and don't really listen. With 20 that goes to 7 or 8 conversations at the one time (excluding the guy talking to himself) you turn the music up - they just talk louder
I had a need for a similar use case as yours but the need for really excellent audio was not there.
I bought a Behringer portable PA , model europort ppA200 with 2X4" and tweeter per speaker(2) and interface /amp that goes together into a single unit for transport any input you want, it was the bottom of the range so I bought a sub(not easily portable but does have handles) for a bit of low down punch, they sound really good outside and in fairly big rooms.
they have other models 500(8'' woofer) and 2000(10'' woofer) as well both which should not need a sub they are plastic and robust and not particularly attractive
approx cost in AUD #200 $700. #500 $1100 #2000 $1600
Every time I have tried to get more than 5 people to listen to music at least 3 start a conversation and don't really listen. With 20 that goes to 7 or 8 conversations at the one time (excluding the guy talking to himself) you turn the music up - they just talk louder
I had a need for a similar use case as yours but the need for really excellent audio was not there.
I bought a Behringer portable PA , model europort ppA200 with 2X4" and tweeter per speaker(2) and interface /amp that goes together into a single unit for transport any input you want, it was the bottom of the range so I bought a sub(not easily portable but does have handles) for a bit of low down punch, they sound really good outside and in fairly big rooms.
they have other models 500(8'' woofer) and 2000(10'' woofer) as well both which should not need a sub they are plastic and robust and not particularly attractive
approx cost in AUD #200 $700. #500 $1100 #2000 $1600
If you don't need the output even inexpensive studio monitors like JBL 308, Kali LP8/IN8, Adam T7, Yamaha HS8, etc. will sound better than PA speakers. If you need louder than definitely PA speakers. Maybe get an SPL meter or SPL app and get an idea of how loud you need and make sure you have enough headroom. Do some testing with your speakers. Once you have this info you'll know what type of speakers to consider.
In small rooms (less than ~50ft/16m in length and width) two or more subs placed properly can help get more consistent bass throughout the listening area. Don't do it for stereo subs as we don't localize bass. To solve room mode problems subs should be at opposite ends of the room. If you are doing it for more consistent bass among the listeners than yes, use two subs. Otherwise one is fine.
I wouldn't worry about the Neumann KH310 being horizontal as it's midrange and tweeter are vertical. There will be a slight difference between left and right but not until more than ~60 degrees off axis. So it will still have great dispersion and sound great.
In small rooms (less than ~50ft/16m in length and width) two or more subs placed properly can help get more consistent bass throughout the listening area. Don't do it for stereo subs as we don't localize bass. To solve room mode problems subs should be at opposite ends of the room. If you are doing it for more consistent bass among the listeners than yes, use two subs. Otherwise one is fine.
I wouldn't worry about the Neumann KH310 being horizontal as it's midrange and tweeter are vertical. There will be a slight difference between left and right but not until more than ~60 degrees off axis. So it will still have great dispersion and sound great.
I'm not sure about your application yet, sooo:
Go for this if you have people only talking, dancing, having fun. You'll need the higher SPL and nobody cares about highend sound anyway. And a 8"/1" PA speaker is not bigger than a studio monitor with an 8" woofer.
Click on the (?) right beside the score and read the explanation (Be also mindfull than smoother or less precise data can yield a higher score than an Klippel generated set of data for example. You can easily remove 0.5 to 1.5 to the score for highly smoothed data). As I see it the score is too high because the FR has been smoothed too much. Compare it with the FR of my FBT Jolly8a which have a rather good flatness score of +/-2.3 dB (compared to many others).
Go for this if you invite guests for serious listening.
If you don't want a sub go for the KH310. 3-ways beat 2-ways regarding IMD.
Using 1 sub you can use room EQ to optimize a rather small listening area, so for a larger multiple subs may be required - but I have no personal experience here.
It depends on the application. For serious listening yes, for background listening no.
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