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Denon x4800h vs marantz cinema 40

peng

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Which video?
It's on youtube, aside from comparing the hardware and features that you likely are already familiar with, he offered no measurements, it is totally subjective based on his opinions.
 

Descartes

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It's on youtube, aside from comparing the hardware and features that you likely are already familiar with, he offered no measurements, it is totally subjective based on his opinions.
Thank you that’s useless
 

peng

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Thank you that’s useless
Do you have something to hold you over while waiting for a major price job or big sale? Denon is on sale now so I think Marantz will follow suit soon, if not then there are box day and new year coming. Obviously on money no object basis then...
 

SynthesisCinema

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Thin Blue has measurements for the Cinema 50 on this site. I would expect the Cinema 40 to measure the same:


I would expect Cinema 40 to measure better if it uses identical HDAM module as SR8015, based on Audioholics article. Hopefully one day someone sends this unit for Amir or the upcoming Cinema 30!


Editorial Note About the $1k Price Difference Between Cinema 40 vs Cinema 50:

  • Cinema 40 is designed and manufactured at their prestigious factory in Japan, a.k.a. Shirakawa Audio Works, same as the SR8015, while the Cinema 50 is manufactured in Vietnam.
  • Cinema 40 utilizes higher grade audio components and design. (IE. HDAM-SA2 improve version similar to the SR8015).
  • Cinema 40 has a more powerful EI core transformer, audio capacitor and higher rated power 125wpc vs 110wpc of Cinema 50.
  • Cinema 40 utilizes monolithic amplifier construction, meaning each amplifier channel comes with its own amplifier PCB, instead of one single amplifier PCB for all channels providing better performance against crosstalk and vibration.
  • Cinema 40 incorporates more acoustic treatment for audio tuning, copper screws on the back panel, etc.
 

peng

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I would expect Cinema 40 to measure better if it uses identical HDAM module as SR8015, based on Audioholics article. Hopefully one day someone sends this unit for Amir or the upcoming Cinema 30!


Editorial Note About the $1k Price Difference Between Cinema 40 vs Cinema 50:

  • Cinema 40 is designed and manufactured at their prestigious factory in Japan, a.k.a. Shirakawa Audio Works, same as the SR8015, while the Cinema 50 is manufactured in Vietnam.
  • Cinema 40 utilizes higher grade audio components and design. (IE. HDAM-SA2 improve version similar to the SR8015).
  • Cinema 40 has a more powerful EI core transformer, audio capacitor and higher rated power 125wpc vs 110wpc of Cinema 50.
  • Cinema 40 utilizes monolithic amplifier construction, meaning each amplifier channel comes with its own amplifier PCB, instead of one single amplifier PCB for all channels providing better performance against crosstalk and vibration.
  • Cinema 40 incorporates more acoustic treatment for audio tuning, copper screws on the back panel, etc.
Unfortunately, even if they use the better HDAMs that won't add as much distortions and noise as the SR6015/7015's might have, it still will not measure as good as the 8015 Gene reviewed because of the TI DAC IC, namely the PCM5102A, that will be a bottleneck for sure.
 
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I would expect Cinema 40 to measure better if it uses identical HDAM module as SR8015, based on Audioholics article. Hopefully one day someone sends this unit for Amir or the upcoming Cinema 30!


Editorial Note About the $1k Price Difference Between Cinema 40 vs Cinema 50:

  • Cinema 40 is designed and manufactured at their prestigious factory in Japan, a.k.a. Shirakawa Audio Works, same as the SR8015, while the Cinema 50 is manufactured in Vietnam.
  • Cinema 40 utilizes higher grade audio components and design. (IE. HDAM-SA2 improve version similar to the SR8015).
  • Cinema 40 has a more powerful EI core transformer, audio capacitor and higher rated power 125wpc vs 110wpc of Cinema 50.
  • Cinema 40 utilizes monolithic amplifier construction, meaning each amplifier channel comes with its own amplifier PCB, instead of one single amplifier PCB for all channels providing better performance against crosstalk and vibration.
  • Cinema 40 incorporates more acoustic treatment for audio tuning, copper screws on the back panel, etc.
The Cinema 40 and 50 both use the HDAM-SA2
 

peng

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I think the Cinema 40 is very decent, but if anyone is still hoping for better SINAD, just keep in mind that a) 94 dB vs 100 dB will not matter audibly under most conditions, and b) it is theoretically impossible for the Cinema 40, or even the SR8015 to achieve the SINAD of the SR8015 that Gene measured, because Gene measured the one that has the AK4458 dac.

The new ones that have the PCM5102A dac chip cannot deliver SINAD better than 93 dB (+/- 2 dB may be possible) because the chip's own SINAD is only 93 dB. Denon and Marantz clearly did a great job implementing the TI dac already as measurements have shown. Better than that will require luck, or some miracles. It really is not a factor, again, as 94 dB at 2 V is already sota in the avr world.
 

mdpay

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Hello,

Long time reader, first time post. Yesterday I listened to the Marantz Cinema 40, and 60 vs Denon x4800. Wow I could not believe the difference. The Marantz had so much more warmth and punch to the lower end. I was planning to buy the Denon to save some money, thinking they would be nearly same. So glad I had the chance to experience each of these models. Ok, so here is where I did this. Best Buy Magnolia. Say what you will but this is the only place I'm aware of to easily do this. The store located in Gilbert, AZ (metro Phx) had quite the selection of speakers to also flip between. Kef R3 meta AND the Reference 1. Kef r11, and the most surprising performance to me for the money, the KEF Q950. Also tried the B&W 804 D4, 702 s3, 703 s3 among many others. The difference between the Marantz and Denon was nearly as apparent as the difference between a B&W and KEF speaker. Very big difference. I love the Marantz depth. The Denon felt bright and lacked fullness compared to the Marantz. There was a noticeable yet smaller difference between the Cinema 40 and 60. The 60 was still warmer than the Denon but less punch than the 40. Also went to an independent dealer to listen to Revel F226 and F228. My favorite speaker by far is the F228. I just wish I liked the F226 as much because I would prefer the smaller Revel size. But the fullness of sound is too apparent for me to ignore so I'm hoping to pull the trigger on the F228's.
 

rana_kirti

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Hello,

Long time reader, first time post. Yesterday I listened to the Marantz Cinema 40, and 60 vs Denon x4800. Wow I could not believe the difference. The Marantz had so much more warmth and punch to the lower end. I was planning to buy the Denon to save some money, thinking they would be nearly same. So glad I had the chance to experience each of these models. Ok, so here is where I did this. Best Buy Magnolia. Say what you will but this is the only place I'm aware of to easily do this. The store located in Gilbert, AZ (metro Phx) had quite the selection of speakers to also flip between. Kef R3 meta AND the Reference 1. Kef r11, and the most surprising performance to me for the money, the KEF Q950. Also tried the B&W 804 D4, 702 s3, 703 s3 among many others. The difference between the Marantz and Denon was nearly as apparent as the difference between a B&W and KEF speaker. Very big difference. I love the Marantz depth. The Denon felt bright and lacked fullness compared to the Marantz. There was a noticeable yet smaller difference between the Cinema 40 and 60. The 60 was still warmer than the Denon but less punch than the 40. Also went to an independent dealer to listen to Revel F226 and F228. My favorite speaker by far is the F228. I just wish I liked the F226 as much because I would prefer the smaller Revel size. But the fullness of sound is too apparent for me to ignore so I'm hoping to pull the trigger on the F228's.
yep, this has been proved.


I've myself lugged around my personal speakers for auditioning and all AVRs sound very different from each other. but some people who can't hear differences assume/argue that others also can't hear differences.

all Brands have a Unique Sound Signature.
 
OP
L

Lbstyling

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Hello,

Long time reader, first time post. Yesterday I listened to the Marantz Cinema 40, and 60 vs Denon x4800. Wow I could not believe the difference. The Marantz had so much more warmth and punch to the lower end. I was planning to buy the Denon to save some money, thinking they would be nearly same. So glad I had the chance to experience each of these models. Ok, so here is where I did this. Best Buy Magnolia. Say what you will but this is the only place I'm aware of to easily do this. The store located in Gilbert, AZ (metro Phx) had quite the selection of speakers to also flip between. Kef R3 meta AND the Reference 1. Kef r11, and the most surprising performance to me for the money, the KEF Q950. Also tried the B&W 804 D4, 702 s3, 703 s3 among many others. The difference between the Marantz and Denon was nearly as apparent as the difference between a B&W and KEF speaker. Very big difference. I love the Marantz depth. The Denon felt bright and lacked fullness compared to the Marantz. There was a noticeable yet smaller difference between the Cinema 40 and 60. The 60 was still warmer than the Denon but less punch than the 40. Also went to an independent dealer to listen to Revel F226 and F228. My favorite speaker by far is the F228. I just wish I liked the F226 as much because I would prefer the smaller Revel size. But the fullness of sound is too apparent for me to ignore so I'm hoping to pull the trigger on the F228's.
Initial thoughts on this is you should keep reading.
 

peng

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yep, this has been proved.


I've myself lugged around my personal speakers for auditioning and all AVRs sound very different from each other. but some people who can't hear differences assume/argue that others also can't hear differences.

all Brands have a Unique Sound Signature.

The funny part is, since you linked it, I did watch what that fellow had to say about his subjective impressions of those several AVRs, while he also thought the C40 sounded better than the 4800, he never said the difference was that great, and if I remember right he ranked the 4800 quite high.

The only thing that video "proved", is that everyone has different taste/subjective impressions of their favorite AVRs/AVPs. Now take a look of what that video showed, by that fellow only:

See that he ranked the X4800H higher than the Cinema 50, let alone the Cinema 60 that mdplay also compared, with the C40 and X4800H, so either such sighted subjective reviews prove nothing, or it proved people has thermometers that are calibrated differently, and we therefore don't know what the real temperatures are, for each DUT.:D:D

Oh, if by your point, it might have proved that the popular Yamaha RX-A8A and the Sony sounded better, or what he called, "Rich"er.

Such reviews are not really for "proof" of how the duts sound in terms of warmth, cool, punchy, bright etc., but more for seeing how people like, or perceive different things differently, even in terms "sound quality", and in a more entertaining way than just reading measurements. That's just my opinion, as they say, ymmv.., though I probably am not alone on this.


1708008864915.png
 

ban25

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The funny part is, since you linked it, I did watch what that fellow had to say about his subjective impressions of those several AVRs, while he also thought the C40 sounded better than the 4800, he never said the difference was that great, and if I remember right he ranked the 4800 quite high.

The only thing that video "proved", is that everyone has different taste/subjective impressions of their favorite AVRs/AVPs. Now take a look of what that video showed, by that fellow only:

See that he ranked the X4800H higher than the Cinema 50, let alone the Cinema 60 that mdplay also compared, with the C40 and X4800H, so either such sighted subjective reviews prove nothing, or it proved people has thermometers that are calibrated differently, and we therefore don't know what the real temperatures are, for each DUT.:D:D

Oh, if by your point, it might have proved that the popular Yamaha RX-A8A and the Sony sounded better, or what he called, "Rich"er.

Such reviews are not really for "proof" of how the duts sound in terms of warmth, cool, punchy, bright etc., but more for seeing how people like, or perceive different things differently, even in terms "sound quality", and in a more entertaining way than just reading measurements. That's just my opinion, as they say, ymmv.., though I probably am not alone on this.


View attachment 349755
That scatter plot takes the cake for audio-foolery! Almost makes me want to watch the video to see his methodology. I will be disappointed if he measures richness in anything other than the Imperial standard sticks of butter (unsalted). As for spaciousness, I assume its plotted relative to the typical Montana cattle ranch!
 

peng

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That scatter plot takes the cake for audio-foolery! Almost makes me want to watch the video to see his methodology. I will be disappointed if he measures richness in anything other than the Imperial standard sticks of butter (unsalted). As for spaciousness, I assume its plotted relative to the typical Montana cattle ranch!
I like his videos reardless because of the nice graphic images including high resolution shots of the innards. He certainty put hus effort in such reviews.

Just be aware that he often got his facts wrong on specs and certain minor things, not the most important facts though.

Other than that he did not do blind tests as far as I know, don't remember if he volume match them prior. Overall, imo he's way better than Andrew Robinson's that I often felt were over the top in terms of subjectivity, but Andrew's a better speaker, or actor lol..
 
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