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Denon x4800h vs marantz cinema 40

Lbstyling

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Chooing between Denon 4800 vs marantz cinema 40.

I'm aware there 2 are more similar than different.

Using external amplifiers (via the preouts on the back), am I correct saying the marantz is capable of higher output before clipping? Would this include the sub outs?

ASR forums shows that some older equivalent models have higher preamp outputs on the marantz versions.

Im ok with the price difference if there is more power on the pre amp outs.
 

peng

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ASR forums shows that some older equivalent models have higher preamp outputs on the marantz versions.
I don't think so, maybe you read it wrong?


Compare the following SINAD versus Preamp output voltages of the "older equivalent models" you may be referring to:

index.php
index.php
 
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Lbstyling

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Was looking at the 8015.

I assume this is the model up from the 4000 series Denon then?

Confusing now they have moved to the 'cinema 40' series.

Not aware we have the output voltages for either the 4800 or the cinema 40 then?
 

peng

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Was looking at the 8015.

I assume this is the model up from the 4000 series Denon then?

Confusing now they have moved to the 'cinema 40' series.

Not aware we have the output voltages for either the 4800 or the cinema 40 then?
Still the same results, they have the same output voltage limit, around the 4 V mark, but Denon's measured slightly better in SINAD. Compare the 8015 to the X8500H would be more appropriate. It is sort of in between the X6700H (same DAC chip) and X8500H (better DAC chip) if you want to be more precise.

You know they were measured why not just look them up yourself, but since we are at it, I'll do it for you. The 6700 and 8500 are the only D+M models that top the 100 dB SINAD mark. The SR8015, at 99 dB, is only a touch lower, so consider it just as good.


index.php


Regardless, you are asking about preamp voltage, they all have the same volume control IC so they all have about the same output voltage, that would be around a little higher than 4 V. The difference is the SINAD vs output voltage curve. Denon's typically measured better, except the 8015 measured just about as good. I don't recall seeing any measurements of the Cinema 40 but am willing to bet it would be about the same as the AVR-X4800H that ASR did measure.
 
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Golfx

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Was looking at the 8015.

I assume this is the model up from the 4000 series Denon then?

Confusing now they have moved to the 'cinema 40' series.

Not aware we have the output voltages for either the 4800 or the cinema 40 then?
The older 8015 will not let you disconnect the internal amplifiers when using pre-outs like the newer 4800 and 40 will.
 

Larszt

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Hi everyone,

I have just bought a used NC502MP 3 channel power amp for my Marantz Cinema 40. But I need to set the channel levels +6db to get the same output as before.

After more reading I find that the Ncore 502MP are 2.4v input while the Cinema 40 apparently only outputs 1.4v. But I also read that it can output 4v. Can anyone confirm what is correct?
I have alle channels set to pre-out mode.

Will this combo work? Or do I need to flip / sell the power amp?
 

voodooless

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X4800h is fine outputting 2Vrms:


You’ll loose about 1.2 dB vs 2.3V. That’s negligible and drives to amp to 75% of its maximum power. I’m sure there are still a few 100 mV left with good enough SINAD. You should be fine. I doubt the Marantz will be very different.
 

Larszt

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X4800h is fine outputting 2Vrms:


You’ll loose about 1.2 dB vs 2.3V. That’s negligible and drives to amp to 75% of its maximum power. I’m sure there are still a few 100 mV left with good enough SINAD. You should be fine. I doubt the Marantz will be very different.
Thank you! That is still 375w in 4ohm. I usually never go past -20 reference.

I just needed to know if I would get clipping or low power. Would a RCA to XLR conversion help get more output gain?
 

peng

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Hi everyone,

I have just bought a used NC502MP 3 channel power amp for my Marantz Cinema 40. But I need to set the channel levels +6db to get the same output as before.

After more reading I find that the Ncore 502MP are 2.4v input while the Cinema 40 apparently only outputs 1.4v. But I also read that it can output 4v. Can anyone confirm what is correct?
I have alle channels set to pre-out mode.

You cannot go by the input sensitivity spec alone, unless you know the details of the specs provided by the manufacturers.

a) Without knowing the input voltage if for what output, it is meaningless.
b) Regarding a)above, manufacturers may define input sensitivity as the input voltage required for the amp to output its rated power output, but that is not always the case, for example sometimes, some manufacturers such as Parasound, may define input sensitivity as the voltage for the amp to output 28.28 V into 8 ohm, that would be about 100 W.

It is better to focus on the gain, when trying to compare the sensitivities of two power amplifiers when you have level match them.
What it the gain of your NC502MP, it it is something like buckeye amp, it will be about 25.5 to 26 dB, in that case, to level match with the Cinema 40, you should only have to increase the level trim by 2.5 to 3.5 dB, not 6 dB, but different NC502MP amps may have slightly different gain.

while the Cinema 40 apparently only outputs 1.4v.

I lost count how many people seem to think those D+M AVRs can only outpus 1.4 V. That is totally false!! But Amir's comments just sticks with people, no matter how many time I posted to try and debunk that myth obviously is not working, it is frustrating..

The fact is, those AVRs can output much higher voltages, often >4 Vrms based on specs and measurements (even Amir's on ASR), but distortions would increase as voltage increases.

Will this combo work? Or do I need to flip / sell the power amp?

It will absolutely work, but again, what is the gain of your NC502MP? I can't imagine it lower than 25 dB, but some have different gain settings that are user selectable.
 

peng

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Thank you! That is still 375w in 4ohm. I usually never go past -20 reference.

I just needed to know if I would get clipping or low power. Would a RCA to XLR conversion help get more output gain?
No, it does not work that way at all, as I tried to explain in post#11. It may be easier if you give me the gain spec of your amp and I will calculate the power output you can expect for 8, or 4 ohm loads, at different pre out levels. I can tell you that if the C40 can only output 1.4 V max, then if your NC502MP volume has to increase 6 dB to match the output of the C40, then it's gain would be about 23 dB, and at 1.4 V, you will get a lot less than 375 W 4 ohm, more like 98 W.

Fortunately, a) the C40 likely can output >4 V max, and your 6 dB increase is due to something you did not do right, but on that I have to know which amp in particular you are using.
 

peng

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X4800h is fine outputting 2Vrms:


You’ll loose about 1.2 dB vs 2.3V. That’s negligible and drives to amp to 75% of its maximum power. I’m sure there are still a few 100 mV left with good enough SINAD. You should be fine. I doubt the Marantz will be very different.
I am afraid you are going to confuse him, inadvertently..
 

Larszt

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Thank you for the insight. I found this on the website. Gain spec is 26dB Voltage Gain Input with Sensitivity 2.3Vrms

3 x 350Wrms 8 Ohms

3 x 500Wrms 4 Ohms

3 x 450Wrms 2 Ohms


I will do another Dirac calibration and see if the +6db is still there.
 
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ban25

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Thin Blue has measurements for the Cinema 50 on this site. I would expect the Cinema 40 to measure the same:

 

Larszt

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No, it does not work that way at all, as I tried to explain in post#11. It may be easier if you give me the gain spec of your amp and I will calculate the power output you can expect for 8, or 4 ohm loads, at different pre out levels. I can tell you that if the C40 can only output 1.4 V max, then if your NC502MP volume has to increase 6 dB to match the output of the C40, then it's gain would be about 23 dB, and at 1.4 V, you will get a lot less than 375 W 4 ohm, more like 98 W.

Fortunately, a) the C40 likely can output >4 V max, and your 6 dB increase is due to something you did not do right, but on that I have to know which amp in particular you are using.
Would you be able to calculate the power output for 4 ohm with the above specs?

Thanks!
 

Descartes

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So is Marantz cinema 40 worth over a $1,000 more than the Denon AVR-X4800H?

They look identical inside
 

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rana_kirti

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look for extensive 4 parts comparison between these by ripewave audio on yt, your answers lie in his comparison video.
 
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