Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[abdo123]

It seems to do 2 things then - follow the Fletcher-Munson curve but also augment the surrounds. They should have broken that up into boosted surround sound as it screws up the balance at -15 to -20db loudness that almost everyone listens to.

Why is there a DEQ 0, -5, -10, -15 with -30? Does DEQ allow levels?

I better find out as I just ordered a 4800h - the deal was too good to pass.

This generation not only allow you to control how strong you want the effect in general to be (that’s what the difference levels are, you choose a “reference” point for DEQ).

But it also allow you to tune the surround boost independently (the problem the the thread i shared complained about).

I’m very happy with Audyssey tbh.

 

[techsamurai]

This generation not only allow you to control how strong you want the effect in general to be (that’s what the difference levels are, you choose a “reference” point for DEQ).

But it also allow you to tune the surround boost independently (the problem the the thread i shared complained about).

I’m very happy with Audyssey tbh.

Well, I'll be upgrading to XT32 from MultEq and have use of the app with the 4800H so I'll be better off than I am now. But DEQ sounds interesting - is there a tutorial on DEQ I can read about before I receive the 4800H?

 

[abdo123]

Well, I'll be upgrading to XT32 from MultEq and have use of the app with the 4800H so I'll be better off than I am now. But DEQ sounds interesting - is there a tutorial on DEQ I can read about before I receive the 4800H?

You already have XT32, what you’re looking for is MultiEQX

 

[techsamurai]

You already have XT32, what you’re looking for is MultiEQX

No, my old SR8002s have MultEQ which is below XT and XT32. Marantz still offers it on the Cinema 70.

XT and XT32 yield almost identical results at least in a REW measurement by someone. I don't think the MultEq is that far off either but I'll find out soon enough.

 

[popej]

This guy is using C weighting so he can’t measure the increase in bass in the front speakers below 100Hz as the level gets lower. The biggest facepalm moment of my life.

Yes, this is quite stupid way to measure subwoofer, but still boost looks reasonable. This is what you would expect from loudness correction.
Surround boost is more or less as measurement I have already seen. My guess is, that it could work, unless you turn your head. And when you turn and notice the boost, it starts to be annoying.

To sum up the video: the observations are correct, the conclusions are irrational.

 

[abdo123]

No, my old SR8002s have MultEQ which is below XT and XT32. Marantz still offers it on the Cinema 70.

XT and XT32 yield almost identical results at least in a REW measurement by someone. I don't think the MultEq is that far off either but I'll find out soon enough.

I meant you don’t have to pay extra for XT32

 

[techsamurai]

This guy is using C weighting so he can’t measure the increase in bass in the front speakers below 100Hz as the level gets lower. The biggest facepalm moment of my life.

How do you know it's C weighted?

 

[peng]

Is that how it behaves? Does it just increase the volume of the surrounds and subs? I expected it to match the Fletcher-Munson curves and change volumes for frequencies for al channels.

It also seems to screw up the measurements if you have it ON and OFF during the calibration. Turning it on and off requires a new profile.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/set-dynamic-volume-and-dynamic-eq-to-on-or-off.3206488/

You should read Ausyssey's own description of how DEQ works.

 

[techsamurai]

You should read Ausyssey's own description of how DEQ works.

Does Dirac Live have DEQ?

 

[abdo123]

How do you know it's C weighted?

You can see the big C on the SPL meter.

 

[abdo123]

Does Dirac Live have DEQ?

I haven’t bought it but I’ve read from other members that when you stop using Audyssey you lose DEQ.

 

[peng]

I haven’t bought it but I’ve read from other members that when you stop using Audyssey you lose DEQ.

Dirac Live does not offer DEQ, not yet anyway.

 

[peng]

Is that how it behaves? Does it just increase the volume of the surrounds and subs? I expected it to match the Fletcher-Munson curves and change volumes for frequencies for al channels.


It also seems to screw up the measurements if you have it ON and OFF during the calibration. Turning it on and off requires a new profile.

There are tons of Youtubers posting things that they don't understand well themselves, this one is a good example. As you probably suspected, he seems to miss the point that DEQ is not about increasing "spl" at lower "volume", but about increasing spl of the low, and high frequency bands at lower volume bass to some extent on the so called "loudness curve/Fletcher Munson curve", though Audyssey emphasized that theirs are more accurate their the old Fletcher Munson, in various ways.

I happen to have saved some of the original write-ups by Audyssey, from years ago, those articles would be very difficult to find now on the internet. Below is from one of such old articles:

So, that Youtuber missed the point about frequency response versus volume. That's why using his Radio Shack meter the way he did prove nothing! Just read the specs of that meter and you will see the obvious reasons.

In the MultEQ-X user guide, they included a whole page on "Audyssey Recommended Demos". For those who are serious about understanding how DEQ might work for them, should probably try it.

Audyssey DEQ is, like a lot of things, not perfect but it is a little more sophisticated than what a lot of people assume it to be "just" like loudness control, based on Fletcher and Munson's.

 

[evert]

Just made an order for one of these.
I don't suppose it can run 5.1.4 in my living room and power zone 2 in my kitchen without external amps?

 

[EWL5]

I think the Pioneer version of Audyssey DEQ was called "Loudness Management" or something like that.

 

[FrantzM]

There are tons of Youtubers posting things that they don't understand well themselves, this one is a good example. As you probably suspected, he seems to miss the point that DEQ is not about increasing "spl" at lower "volume", but about increasing spl of the low, and high frequency bands at lower volume bass to some extent on the so called "loudness curve/Fletcher Munson curve", though Audyssey emphasized that theirs are more accurate their the old Fletcher Munson, in various ways.

I happen to have saved some of the original write-ups by Audyssey, from years ago, those articles would be very difficult to find now on the internet. Below is from one of such old articles:

View attachment 317497

So, that Youtuber missed the point about frequency response versus volume. That's why using his Radio Shack meter the way he did prove nothing! Just read the specs of that meter and you will see the obvious reasons.

View attachment 317498


In the MultEQ-X user guide, they included a whole page on "Audyssey Recommended Demos". For those who are serious about understanding how DEQ might work for them, should probably try it.

Audyssey DEQ is, like a lot of things, not perfect but it is a little more sophisticated than what a lot of people assume it to be "just" like loudness control, based on Fletcher and Munson's.

Hi

A game changer IMHO. It got me married to Denon. It took me a long time to dial it in. Audyssey MultEQ-X Windows Application is the real deal. I look forward to audition any system that would challenge DynEQ in providing such stable and enjoyable level of performance, regardless of volume setting. Some have complained about the level of surround channels, or the bass, I find these just to my liking.
I look forward for serious comparison between Audyssey MultEQ-X and Dirac... I have the suspicion that it may surprise many....


Peace.

 

[techsamurai]

Just made an order for one of these.
I don't suppose it can run 5.1.4 in my living room and power zone 2 in my kitchen without external amps?

Why not? Isn't a 5.x.4 system technically the same as a 5.x.0 system?

I can't speak for Zone 2 though because that might be full range and playing that at the same time as the 5.x.4 would be quite demanding.

I've never used the zones on my AVRs or the extra outputs - how would you even get speaker cables there?

 

[evert]

Why not? Isn't a 5.x.4 system technically the same as a 5.x.0 system?

I can't speak for Zone 2 though because that might be full range and playing that at the same time as the 5.x.4 would be quite demanding.

I've never used the zones on my AVRs or the extra outputs - how would you even get speaker cables there?

I'm thinking since it's a 9 channel internal amp, can those be assigned dynamically or are they "locked" to a specific speaker.
If they are locked then my setup of 5ch in base layer and 4ch in heights will take them all.
If I can use main zone FL + FR and/or Zone 2 FL + FR I would be very happy.
And when I don't use Zone 2 those amps belong to the 9ch I have in the MCH layout.

 

[techsamurai]

Dirac Live does not offer DEQ, not yet anyway.

If Dirac is missing that, then at normal listening levels, Audyssey must be better even if it's not perfect.

I haven't tried DEQ but I've actually been wondering about the Fletcher Munson curve on my own because I was always surprised how my AVR became so quiet (different might be a better term) as the volume goes down.

In my living room, I have to turn down my volume massively at night as we have cathedral ceilings and I don't want to disturb the family sleeping upstairs. I'm curious to hear how DEQ sounds at night. I'm feeling that I might have to turn it off at night.

 

[abdo123]

Just made an order for one of these.
I don't suppose it can run 5.1.4 in my living room and power zone 2 in my kitchen without external amps?

Can’t see why it wouldn’t.