Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[enricoclaudio]

I’m resetting it and doing setup from scratch again. If it keeps doing the same relay sound, I will bring it tomorrow to Best Buy and get a replacement.

 

[mattsrs]

It’s happening when changing channels and the sound mode is upsampled from DD 5.1 to DD + DSurr or to any other upsampling audio mode like AURO 3D. Does not happens randomly.

That is normal! Replacing it will not change anything

 

[RF Air]

That is normal! Replacing it will not change anything

I have had this problem when I had a faulty cable or a connection. It appears you have several components connected, possible problem with connectivity, the delay in signal source could cause the relay click delay.

 

[enricoclaudio]

I found what triggers the clicking. It happens when the X4800 receives Multichannel (PCM) signal and then upsamples to ATMOS or DD + DSurr. If I send DD 5.1 then it doesn’t do the relay clicking. I checked my X4700H and it does not do the relay clicking no matter what. So this behavior is particular to this model or my X4800H is defective. For peace of mind, I’m going to do the exchange tomorrow. If the second unit does the same, then now we know it’s particular to this model.

 

[bigguyca]

I presume so according to

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/1664217176078-jpeg.258208/

But, does anyone else confirm it? I suspect this info. might be wrong.

The information in the link is correct, same mediocre TI DAC IC: X3800H, X4800H, X6700H. Also TI DAC IC in the similar, but more expensive, Marantz Cinema 50, 40, 30 units although Marantz is less forthcoming with this information.

 

[Nihon]

Thanks everyone for showing information on DAC.
To understand such a big difference of the measured values, I think I overlook something important.

 

[RF Air]

The information in the link is correct, same mediocre TI DAC IC: X3800H, X4800H, X6700H. Also TI DAC IC in the similar, but more expensive, Marantz Cinema 50, 40, 30 units although Marantz is less forthcoming with this information.

PCM5102A DAC Specs from Texas Instruments

DYNAMIC RANGE
112dB

SNR
112dB

THD+N at –1 dBFS
–93 dB

 

[Rockman2]

I found what triggers the clicking. It happens when the X4800 receives Multichannel (PCM) signal and then upsamples to ATMOS or DD + DSurr. If I send DD 5.1 then it doesn’t do the relay clicking. I checked my X4700H and it does not do the relay clicking no matter what. So this behavior is particular to this model or my X4800H is defective. For peace of mind, I’m going to do the exchange tomorrow. If the second unit does the same, then now we know it’s particular to this model.

Again My Marantz SR8015 mad a very noticeable clicking or mechanical sound when chaining sources. I do not remember as I did not change surround formats much but it may have also had the noise then. My Onkyo 5010 a beast and great sounding AVR also did the same. So I was not troubled by the SR8015 doing it. Not sure why your 4700 is not doing this. Maybe lower quality relay's?

 

[doc2c]

I have an itch to scratch

I have L, R, center, and 2 subs setup running on a 3500h. Any reason to upgrade to 4800h? Dont need the extra volume or more channels.

 

[Nihon]

PCM5102A DAC Specs from Texas Instruments

THD+N at –1 dBFS
–93 dB

Don't you think the measured SINAD of 96dB is too high for this value of THD+N?

 

[enricoclaudio]

Here is a video showing the clicking sound. This can't be normal.

 

[amirm]

Don't you think the measured SINAD of 96dB is too high for this value of THD+N?

No. TI spec is vague and uses 48 kHz sampling whereas I use 44.1 kHz. SINAD is dominated by noise and not distortion so the wider the bandwidth, the higher the noise. Further, the output level makes a big impact on SNR. We don't know what that was in TI measurements. All of this is beside the point that 1 to 2 dB of SINAD is not material. Indeed, the numbers were jumping up and down this much in the measurements and one channel measured worse than the other.

 

[RF Air]

I have an itch to scratch

I have L, R, center, and 2 subs setup running on a 3500h. Any reason to upgrade to 4800h? Dont need the extra volume or more channels.

No, with the configuration you are running, you are spending $1,000 more than you need. I would say if you want to update and want the new GUI and performance features, the X3800H is currently on sale (US $1,499 ) and will give you an improvement over your 3500. https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/avr-x3800h

 

[Joffy1780]

Here you go!!

View attachment 270797

Thanks man, love the look of the new menus as well.

 

[Rockman2]

Here is a video showing the clicking sound. This can't be normal.

Does it do the same thing when going from Sat to DVD?

 

[enricoclaudio]

No, it doesn’t when changing inputs.

 

[Nihon]

No. TI spec is vague and uses 48 kHz sampling whereas I use 44.1 kHz. SINAD is dominated by noise and not distortion so the wider the bandwidth, the higher the noise. Further, the output level makes a big impact on SNR. We don't know what that was in TI measurements. All of this is beside the point that 1 to 2 dB of SINAD is not material. Indeed, the numbers were jumping up and down this much in the measurements and one channel measured worse than the other.

Thanks. I think I understand possible origins of the small difference between the spec sheet and the measured value.
On the other hand, I still cannot understand the origin of the 10dB difference between 3800H and 4800H....

 

[bigguyca]

PCM5102A DAC Specs from Texas Instruments

DYNAMIC RANGE
112dB

SNR
112dB

THD+N at –1 dBFS
–93 dB

The specs are well known. What's your point?

The stop band in the datasheet and in Amir's measurements is a truly mediocre -60dB as well.

The PCM510xA series must be really inexpensive to implement since they have a single-ended output and appear to not require an opamp output buffer/filter. Most DAC IC's have a differential output and have a differential amplifier implemented with an opamp at the output.

FYI, the PCM5100A with worse specs is used for zone 2 and zone 3 if present. This DAC IC is the same for all Denon/Marantz AVR's and AVP's and has been for long before the AKM fire.

The previous AK4458 used in these products had a THD+N of -107dB and a stop band of -80dB, which wasn't great but a lot better than -60dB. AK4458's are once again available at least from Mouser.

 

[ArturoKiwi]

I bought mine last weekend. It was between this and the Cinema 50. But the 4800 did more of what I wanted it to do. If you haven't watched it yet. Watch the dealer session video on YT. I forget the name and link, sorry. But it was watching this video and the one on the cinema 50 that ultimately helped me choose the X4800H over the cinema 50.

But the X4800H isn't the Cinema 40 correspective?
In Italy is at X3800H at 1450/1500€, C50 at 1700€, X4800H at 2350€ and C40 at 2550€.
If I look the price it seems to me that there is about 200€ between the Denon and the Marantz

 

[RF Air]

The specs are well known. What's your point?

The stop band in the datasheet and in Amir's measurements is a truly mediocre -60dB as well.

The PCM510xA series must be really inexpensive to implement since they have a single-ended output and appear to not require an opamp output buffer/filter. Most DAC IC's have a differential output and have a differential amplifier implemented with an opamp at the output.

FYI, the PCM5100A with worse specs is used for zone 2 and zone 3 if present. This DAC IC is the same for all Denon/Marantz AVR's and AVP's and has been for long before the AKM fire.

The previous AK4458 used in these products had a THD+N of -107dB and a stop band of -80dB, which wasn't great but a lot better than -60dB. AK4458's are once again available at least from Mouser.

I did not have a point, it was a courtesy. I posted the info for @Nihon who was questioning Performance Spec of the DAC