Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[HarmonicTHD]

Only a herd if we all vote the same, no?

Perhaps you'd prefer we vote based on how we 'feel' when we listen to it?

We could also vote based on his entitled attitude

 

[dlaloum]

Pre-amp mode and amplifier or bite the bullet and get a processor and amp combo?

Comes down to the value equation doesn't it!

As a prepro, the X3800 achieves 90%+ of what the X4800 does - there is an improvement in Jitter and SINAD - so there may be some value in going to the X4800 - enough to justify the price difference? - the value equation is very individual!

I would use an external amp for LCR and the internals for the surrounds and heights (which are usually easier to drive... if they are difficult too, then it would be a different calculation!) - for my own combination of speakers.
Most people have easier to drive speakers - and that allows for a very different value equation, as there may not be a need for external amps, and therefore the associated expense.

The Integra 8.4 looks promising in terms of amps... and presumably we may see an X6800 next year with more "grunt" - The AVR-AV1H would almost certainly handle difficult speakers (looking forward to some bench tests on that monster!) - but at such a high price, that an X4800 with external amps ends up being more economical!

 

[dlaloum]

No, they're basing their vote on the measured performance, as per just about every other review on the site.

And we base our vote on the aspects of measured performance we most value individually .... hence there is a spread of votes...

 

[Chrispy]

And we base our vote on the aspects of measured performance we most value individually .... hence there is a spread of votes...

But not based on ownership as was postulated....

 

[AdamG]

I too have this model, and have been invested in the review by Amir. But I’m not going to pile in on a review by Amir to either support or denigrate a product just by a review. That’s the behaviour of a herd.

When you have been here a little longer this will make sense and you too will be casting your vote on a product’s performance on Amir’s Test bench. Some of the Voters are Owners, some are considering buying a unit and others are interested Members expressing their opinions about the review process and results.

Welcome Aboard @David_Alexander or should I say Welcome to the Herd!

 

[dlaloum]

So, people should use their brains and understand the review rather than thinking "recommend good, not recommended bad". This post IS NOT a criticism of the recommendation.

That said, I do feel like it's important to note that the amplifier performance of the 4800H is not that much different than the 3800H. The HDMI-in amplifier SINAD is ~84.5dB(3800) vs ~86dB(4800).

Spoiler

SNR for the 3800H is actually better than the 4800H. (not clear if this is a valid comparison due to ground loop?)

Spoiler

The power difference is minimal with the 3800H at 114W(8 ohm), 135W(4 ohm) both channels driven, and the 4800H at 134W & 175W respectively. This is only about 30% more, which might get you 1dB of extra output?

So, while the DAC SINAD on the 4800H is surprisingly improved a decent amount at 95dB vs 87dB, considering this is distortion-dominated SINAD I can't see how it would be a good choice for anyone who was considering the 3800H to run out and pay the premium for the 4800H.

To me, the major difference that sticks out, is Jitter performance... but is the difference in price worth that difference in performance, especially considering that even the X3800 has jitter performance at quite low levels, below thresholds of audibility?

 

[RF Air]

My mistake. Maybe it’s just rate this avr on the above test. Which is ok. Bit cultish though.

I think it's a Forum. Hobbyist and Enthusiast all want to share an opinion which is why we're here. With you being new, there has been a lot of interest in this product since October when the X3800H was Reviewed with lower than expected results. I believe this review exceeded most expectations for the Forum, including my own.

I too have this model, and have been invested in the review by Amir. But I’m not going to pile in on a review by Amir to either support or denigrate a product just by a review. That’s the behaviour of a herd.

I think it's a voice for feedback, which can be distorted. It's meaningless unless you want to apply meaning. I source my feedback in the factual statements and appreciate the great dialogue among Forum Members. Who know's what motivation people have when Polling, it doesn't change anything for me.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I think it's a Forum. Hobbyist and Enthusiast all want to share an opinion which is why we're here. With you being new, there has been a lot of interest in this product since October when the X3800H was Reviewed with lower than expected results. I believe this review exceeded most expectations for the Forum, including my own.


I think it's a voice for feedback, which can be distorted. It's meaningless unless you want to apply meaning. I source my feedback in the factual statements and appreciate the great dialogue among Forum Members. Who know's what motivation people have when Polling, it doesn't change anything for me.

Thx btw. for sending in your unit.

 

[AdamG]

Thx btw. for sending in your unit.

Second that. Much appreciated. The waiting can be tough. Taking one for the team

 

[David_Alexander]

When you have been here a little longer this will make sense and you too will be casting your vote on a product’s performance on Amir’s Test bench. Some of the Voters are Owners, some are considering buying a unit and others are interested Members expressing their opinions about the review process and results.

Welcome Aboard @David_Alexander or should I say Welcome to the Herd!

Thank you for your welcome sir.

 

[RF Air]

Second that. Much appreciated. The waiting can be tough. Taking one for the team

Thank you all, I appreciate the dialogue and the opportunity to be among the ASR community.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

To me this seems like a viable option for anyone wanting to power a small Atmos, DTS-X, Auro 3D home theater. Looks to me like it will support 7.1.4 layouts, has Dirac Live (though probably not DLBC), and has multiple sub support, with reasonable performance numbers for an AVR, all for $2500. Not cheap, but reasonable.

Given that it's impossible to do these object based home theater codecs on your pc, and there are few dacs outside the pro world that do more than 8 channels anyway, this may most people's best option for an Atmos theater. I did own a 7.1 Denon 4800 series in the early 2000's. Sounded great but decyphering the owners' manual was like translating Mandarin that had been translated from Swahili. Hope they've gotten better at that. Maybe a member who owns one could provide their input on the documentation.

 

[David_Alexander]

I think it's a Forum. Hobbyist and Enthusiast all want to share an opinion which is why we're here. With you being new, there has been a lot of interest in this product since October when the X3800H was Reviewed with lower than expected results. I believe this review exceeded most expectations for the Forum, including my own.


I think it's a voice for feedback, which can be distorted. It's meaningless unless you want to apply meaning. I source my feedback in the factual statements and appreciate the great dialogue among Forum Members. Who know's what motivation people have when Polling, it doesn't change anything for me.

Agreed. It’s just that the polling figure stays atop of the thread. Essentially this review thread becomes the de-facto owners thread or likely the one people link to.
So I’ve looked at X3800H and RZ50 review threads which are in effect the main threads on this site pertaining to those product, and the poll above the thread says not good, when the lived experience with the product differs.
So, while the ASR measurement may not be great, this hangs around like an albatross around the neck of a product.

 

[mattsrs]

I wonder if the improved DAC performance vs 3800h is due to 4800 being “Made in Japan”

 

[David_Alexander]

I wonder if the improved DAC performance vs 3800h is due to 4800 being “Made in Japan”

There a part of the Massimo YouTube video where they talk about isolating components on their home made models as opposed to blocking them together on the lower tiered ones. This may have an effect.

 

[RF Air]

Agreed. It’s just that the polling figure stays atop of the thread. Essentially this review thread becomes the de-facto owners thread or likely the one people link to.
So I’ve looked at X3800H and RZ50 review threads which are in effect the main threads on this site pertaining to those product, and the poll above the thread says not good, when the lived experience with the product differs.
So, while the ASR measurement may not be great, this hangs around like an albatross around the neck of a product.

I can see your concern here. BTW, welcome to the Forum!

It's a diverse community, sort of like beer drinkers. Everyone has their preference, but in the end we all drink together and enjoy ourselves along the way.

 

[Nihon]

I don't understand why the SINAD is so different between 4800H and 3800H.
I presume that they have the same preamps.
Nevertheless, the DAC Measurements using Toslink give 94-96dB for 4800H while 86-87dB for 3800H.
Could amirm or anyone tell me the reason for such a big difference?

 

[ZööZ]

I don't understand why the SINAD is so different between 4800H and 3800H.
I presume that they have the same preamps.
Nevertheless, the DAC Measurements using Toslink give 94-96dB for 4800H while 86-87dB for 3800H.
Could amirm or anyone tell me the reason for such a big difference?

was wondering the same... are they actually using different dac chip than in 3800 (and propably the later "updated" 3700)?

 

[RF Air]

was wondering the same... are they actually using different dac chip than in 3800 (and propably the later "updated" 3700)?

It's the same DAC as the 3800. There is a Clock Jitter Chip which may have helped. The Amplifier is also a new design similar in build to the Flagship AVR-A1H. There were other circuit design characteristics mentioned in the Matsumo Launch Presentation which the goal was to work on quieting and increasing the design performance. I think this was a best case scenario given their objectives. Also mentioned was the build in Japan where they had better control and workability for any upgrades or enhancement of their products relative to the Vietnam manufacture facility for the 3800.

*2nd Edit: And let's not count out the Power Supply difference which is larger and can possibly offer better stability.

And I keep forgetting this which was a main reason I opted for 4800; this model has the Denon AL32 Alpha Processing for Multichannel which was a nice enhancement to Denon products many years ago which may have given the uptick in performance.

 

[sask15]

It’s crazy how they got it almost to 4700 AKM levels though isn’t it?