Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[PitCook]

that's exactly what I'm missing at D&M: Chromecast built-in

 

[Bello]

That air which is leaving the top due to convection creates a low pressure zone. The pressure difference has to be compensated for by air entering the unit from the side or bottom to reach equilibrium again. This air can contain dust, right?
All you're doing with a fan is speeding up the airflow compared to convection alone. You can either create high pressure by blowing air in or low pressure by sucking air out. An upside to the pushing in version is you could add a removable filter in front of the fan to catch dust. The high pressure you create inside prevents other unfiltered air from entering.

Also, when the AVR is not turned on, dust can settle on top of the unit. But it has ventilation slits in the top, so dust can fall in....

As we all know, all systems are made to operate in an open air environment. If confined in a closed, low ceiling cabinet. Hot air will bonce back into the unit, cooking your system. My Yamaha, which I had for many years never had major heat issues running open air w/out fans. As I mentioned, I recently I opened it, after 25 years of use. You would think it would be covered internally w/ dust from the top louvers down. Surprisingly, it was fairly clean w/out plie of dust on the internal components. I believe this is from limited air movement into the system. These systems in open air (w/out a ceiling) mostly run hot, not-at-all detrimental to the system as I experienced. Especially spring / NE summer days without AC cooling. Couple of things that contribute to good heat dissipation. First design layout of components, no metal bridges (i;e 4700) for ribbon cables over very hot component (amplifiers) convection oven. Second, a clear overhead venting, unobstructed top. Pushing air through a system will eventually be more of a determent to system then if you left it alone in open air. If confined in a cabinet, I would only recommend sending air over the top / across the top, (Not through the system, no need) just away from of the system top. Back of the system to front out is the best overall solution.

I've tested this method throughout this past year of ownership. Perfect! Cool as a cucumber. Even today, hot, w/ out AC. System never went above 94 degrees w/ thermal sensor sitting 1/2 inch above the louvers for about an hour of play.

Hope that helps,

Good luck!

 

[Bodhidan]

Hi folks, I recently picked up an X4700 replacing an old Onyo TR-NR616. I'm finding music really harsh at higher volumes. I have run Audacity and purchased the app for tweaking. Do other owners have any advice for tweaking it. I enjoy listening to music loud and have been disappointed that it has become unenjoyable. Imagine it must be able to be addressed via settings. Currently, I listen to music in stereo with multieq xt32 set to reference and all other options off.

 

[Bodhidan]

1. Audyssey may slightly elevate the 2K+ range in an attempt to flatten the FR. If this is what is happening in your setup and it's undesirable try running in "Direct" mode. This will bypass Audyssey. If that doesn't resolve the issue the Audyssey app has a 2nd roll off option you can try.

2. If the harsh sound you are hearing is distortion at higher volume levels you might try pre-amp mode with external amp(s) and see if that sounds different to your ears.

3. The Audyssey app offers the ability to create a custom curve that can offer tweaking of the FR to match your needs. The additional use of Ratbuddy and REW can help overcome obstacles the room may place in your path.

Thanks, I will continue to play in the app to address. This is my first experience with what I assume people refer to when describing listening fatigue. I previously had a Pioneer Elite-53 that suffered from the faulty TI main board chip then the budget Onkyo to cover the time before settling in this model Denon. I've have the same speaker set up throughout all three receivers so think it's got to be an EQing issue more so than distortion. I will try direct mode but do not want to settle on that because I want to keep my Sub active.

 

[JonfromCB]

Hi folks, I recently picked up an X4700 replacing an old Onyo TR-NR616. I'm finding music really harsh at higher volumes. I have run Audacity and purchased the app for tweaking. Do other owners have any advice for tweaking it. I enjoy listening to music loud and have been disappointed that it has become unenjoyable. Imagine it must be able to be addressed via settings. Currently, I listen to music in stereo with multieq xt32 set to reference and all other options off.

Can you tell us about your speakers; how many you are driving, their efficiency, and their distance from your listening position? I ask because you mention the word "loud" twice. You could possibly be overdriving the power supply. I agree you should check all your settings. Are you running your speakers "full range" or do you have the fronts set to "small"? Are you minimizing background noise when you calibrate Audyssey? I know these things are basic, but often it's the overlooked basics causing problems. Good luck

 

[oupee]

Hi folks, I recently picked up an X4700 replacing an old Onyo TR-NR616. I'm finding music really harsh at higher volumes. I have run Audacity and purchased the app for tweaking. Do other owners have any advice for tweaking it. I enjoy listening to music loud and have been disappointed that it has become unenjoyable. Imagine it must be able to be addressed via settings. Currently, I listen to music in stereo with multieq xt32 set to reference and all other options off.

1. reset the unit to factory settings
2. return Denon
3. buy Marantz

 

[Macfox]

Can you tell us about your speakers; how many you are driving, their efficiency, and their distance from your listening position? I ask because you mention the word "loud" twice. You could possibly be overdriving the power supply. I agree you should check all your settings. Are you running your speakers "full range" or do you have the fronts set to "small"? Are you minimizing background noise when you calibrate Audyssey? I know these things are basic, but often it's the overlooked basics causing problems. Good luck

Settings might be different from the Onkyo, especially bass gain or crossover frequency. If the settings are the same, I'd surprise me if the power supply is the culprit.
The Onkyo is slightly less powerful, so should have had the same problems then.
TX-NR636 (successor to 616) measurements

Denon 3312 measurements (predecessor to 4x000 range)

 

[Propheticus]

1. reset the unit to factory settings
2. return Denon
3. buy Marantz

Well that's utterly useless. All that hassle for no change (now) or slightly worse performance (older models).

I second the tips about reducing background noise, esp low freq rumble (fridge for instance), and having a try at limiting correction to between 300 and 500 Hz.
Lastly anecdotal: my Denon AVR's included Audyssey mic was actually faulty, which I only noticed upon remeasuring after shifting speakers. I was playing around because the sound (with correction) did not sound ok to me. The app would repeat a channel's sweep at ever higher levels and reported it could not detect it. Actually it went so loud I feared it would damage the speaker, so I quickly turned off the whole AVR.
Testing the mic via a laptop taught me its cable was broken inside, slight movements would cause distortion or no signal at all. I then used the old mic (same model number 100% match) of the Onkyo AVR I had replaced. Much better results, obviously.

 

[Bodhidan]

Can you tell us about your speakers; how many you are driving, their efficiency, and their distance from your listening position? I ask because you mention the word "loud" twice. You could possibly be overdriving the power supply. I agree you should check all your settings. Are you running your speakers "full range" or do you have the fronts set to "small"? Are you minimizing background noise when you calibrate Audyssey? I know these things are basic, but often it's the overlooked basics causing problems. Good luck

When I say loud I'm exaggerating a bit. I'm listening at below reference, probably as high as -10db or so when I'm cranking it. Currently, I'm not even getting that high because I find it too harsh. I can't see myself overdriving the x4700. I'm running Pioneer SP-FS52 in stereo so budget speakers that are power-hungry but were driven fine by my old receivers. I know my speakers are budget and are on the list of things to upgrade but I've always been fond of them and they have never sounded harsh like this.

1. reset the unit to factory settings
2. return Denon
3. buy Marantz

I've only started to delve into the back and forth regarding Denon vs Marantz. What I'm experiencing is profound and I feel like there has to be something that can be done is settings and EQ to sort things out. I want to try everything I possibly can to get this receiver sounding decent before giving up on it.

Settings might be different from the Onkyo, especially bass gain or crossover frequency. If the settings are the same, it'd surprise me if the power supply is the culprit.
The Onkyo is slightly less powerful, so should have had the same problems then.
TX-NR636 (successor to 616) measurements

Denon 3312 measurements (predecessor to 4x000 range)

I agree there's no reason to assume that unit is underpowered. The x4700 is as powerful as my old Pioneer and more powerful than my Onkyo placeholder.

 

[Propheticus]

I've tested this method throughout this past year of ownership. Perfect! Cool as a cucumber. Even today, hot, w/ out AC. System never went above 94 degrees w/ thermal sensor sitting 1/2 inch above the louvers for about an hour of play.

I'm not disputing your experience by the way. This sound like it works perfectly fine. Removing the hot air from the cabinet instead of a stream of air going straight up bouncing on the ceiling sounds like a good idea.
Still creating an airflow over the top will reduce the air pressure there (Bernoulli's principle), in effect (also) sucking air up, in doing so creating airflow through the unit.

 

[oupee]

Well that's utterly useless. All that hassle for no change (now) or slightly worse performance (older models).

I second the tips about reducing background noise, esp low freq rumble (fridge for instance), and having a try at limiting correction to between 300 and 500 Hz.
Lastly anecdotal: my Denon AVR's included Audyssey mic was actually faulty, which I only noticed upon remeasuring after shifting speakers. I was playing around because the sound (with correction) did not sound ok to me. The app would repeat a channel's sweep at ever higher levels and reported it could not detect it. Actually it went so loud I feared it would damage the speaker, so I quickly turned off the whole AVR.
Testing the mic via a laptop taught me its cable was broken inside, slight movements would cause distortion or no signal at all. I then used the old mic (same model number 100% match) of the Onkyo AVR I had replaced. Much better results, obviously.

The biggest problem is that all Audyssey microphones can be considered broken because they are not calibrated. The cheapest calibrated microphone with a 3.5mm jack is the Dayton iMM-6 that I have. It has a serial number and I have to download a calibration file that corrects the frequency response in the range of -3.9db to + 2.3db. What tolerance does the Audyssey microphone have? Who knows and where it is written? Audyssey microphones are made as fast as croissants and are not controlled by anyone. Although I have Marantz and Audyssey, I consider Audyssey to be broken just because of the microphone.

 

[JonfromCB]

When I say loud I'm exaggerating a bit. I'm listening at below reference, probably as high as -10db or so when I'm cranking it. Currently, I'm not even getting that high because I find it too harsh. I can't see myself overdriving the x4700. I'm running Pioneer SP-FS52 in stereo so budget speakers that are power-hungry but were driven fine by my old receivers. I know my speakers are budget and are on the list of things to upgrade but I've always been fond of them and they have never sounded harsh like this.




I've only started to delve into the back and forth regarding Denon vs Marantz. What I'm experiencing is profound and I feel like there has to be something that can be done is settings and EQ to sort things out. I want to try everything I possibly can to get this receiver sounding decent before giving up on it.



I agree there's no reason to assume that unit is underpowered. The x4700 is as powerful as my old Pioneer and more powerful than my Onkyo placeholder.

Sounds like you are running just two speakers and not at extremly loud volumes so you ruled out overdriving the 4700. Does the "harshness" you describe exist with all input sources? Have you compared music sources that reproduce the harshness you describe with the reproduction of some test tracks on a HQ stereo or surround sound test CD? Is the "harshness" the same with Audyssey "on" and "off"? Have you ruled-out "settings" issues? I'd recommend reviewing your Audyssey calibration technique and hygiene....ie, room silent, microphone absolutely perpendicular to the ceiling, take all measurements withing 20 inches of the 1st measurement position and all at the same "ear level". Audyssey eq results will only be as good as the exactness of the process.

 

[Bodhidan]

Sounds like you are running just two speakers and not at extremly loud volumes so you ruled out overdriving the 4700. Does the "harshness" you describe exist with all input sources? Have you compared music sources that reproduce the harshness you describe with the reproduction of some test tracks on a HQ stereo or surround sound test CD? Is the "harshness" the same with Audyssey "on" and "off"? Have you ruled-out "settings" issues? I'd recommend reviewing your Audyssey calibration technique and hygiene....ie, room silent, microphone absolutely perpendicular to the ceiling, take all measurements withing 20 inches of the 1st measurement position and all at the same "ear level". Audyssey eq results will only be as good as the exactness of the process.

I know " harshness" is in itself open to interpretation. This is essentially the first time I understand what people mean when people describe sound as being fatiguing.

I've reviewed some material on running Audyssey and tweaking it using the app so will sit down and try it again.

To be clear I don't have any complaints when watching movies in surround. I watched both Fury Road and Tron: Legacy the other night, both were cranked and sounded amazing.

I just turned Auddyssey off completely while writing this and I actually think it's a lot better.

 

[Bodhidan]

That tells me you should go into the Audyssey app on your phone or iPad and change the setting so only frequencies below 500Hz are effected by Audyssey. Next, save it and upload it to the 4700 and you will be happy.

That fixed it 100%. I'm now listening to music at reference level and it sounds awesome. Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[Bello]

I'm not disputing your experience by the way. This sound like it works perfectly fine. Removing the hot air from the cabinet instead of a stream of air going straight up bouncing on the ceiling sounds like a good idea.
Still creating an airflow over the top will reduce the air pressure there (Bernoulli's principle), in effect (also) sucking air up, in doing so creating airflow through the unit.

That would be an extremely minor affect from (low air flow movement) across the top vs forced air (fast movement) through the system. Forced air would accelerate dust contamination (100 fold) to sensitive internal audio components. If I was wrong - wouldn't you think that all audio manufacturers w/ high amperage / Watt output, implement, design cheep insulated fans to the bottom and tops of these systems? To have them run cooler. You'll never see that happen BC it would be detrimental to the internal audio components, and SINAD period. We're talking audio not data as in a PC or server type of equipment. Difference, where audio sound reproduction is the ultimate goal. Fans also generate noise Freq. over modulate into an audio circuit path signal so another reason not to use them. Low speed fans, away from the chassis is best. From systems backend cool air IN front hot air OUT........... It's Simple (Bello principle) :+))

 

[JonfromCB]

That would be an extremely minor affect from (low air flow movement) across the top vs forced air (fast movement) through the system. Forced air would accelerate dust contamination (100 fold) to sensitive internal audio components. If I was wrong - wouldn't you think that all audio manufacturers w/ high amperage / Watt output, implement, design cheep insulated fans to the bottom and tops of these systems? To have them run cooler. You'll never see that happen BC it would be detrimental to the internal audio components, and SINAD period. We're talking audio not data as in a PC or server type of equipment. Difference, where audio sound reproduction is the ultimate goal. Fans also generate noise Freq. over modulate into an audio circuit path signal so another reason not to use them. Low speed fans, away from the chassis is best. From systems backend cool air IN front hot air OUT........... It's Simple (Bello principle) :+))

Interesting concept that in theory should/could assist normal heat convection through a component. Only temperature measurements of the warmest/hotest internal components would indicate how well it works.

Just curious, how/where does your assertion of "(100 fold)" accelerated dust contaminiation come from? Wouldn't that be a function of the amount of dust of certain size and mass, and the volume of air through the unit? Humidity would be another significant dust "accumulation factor". I've seen the insides of many computers and audio components. Dust moving though forced air accumulates the greatest amounts on the "leading edge" of surfaces it touches rather than being evenly distributed or "blanketed" and attached to all sides of every part inside the component.

FWIW, in over 44 years I've had components fail from "old age" and heat failure from poor design but never from dust failure and some of them have had fans sucking air out the top or through them for a decade or more. Poor design has always been the greatest failure factor from my experience.

Honestly, I hope your approach serves you well.

 

[WildH]

Heat - The Denon 4700 runs hot when you load it up with speakers using the internal amps and run it for an extended period of time. Even if it's sitting out with open air all around it the temperature climbs. The AC Infinity MULTIFAN S7 runs quiet on the low setting and does an excellent job of keeping the unit cool. It's a great match in my opinion.

Thank you all for the great info on this thread! Interesting and informative.

Two Questions:

1. Where are those who use these fans plugging them in so they turn on/off with the AVR?

2. If I picked up a three channel Emotiva BasX amp to drive my Wharfedale Evo 4.4 FLR and 4C Center, could I use the 4700 amp L/R for a zone two set of speakers? If so, would there be significant signal degradation? I don't tend to drive my speakers to hard (mostly under 70 on the volume dial).

 

[WildH]

1. I'm using this power strip for the Denon 4700 and the fan. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9203
When I turn off the Denon I also switch off the power strip.

2. You can't use the front pre-outs and the front internal amps at the same time. You would connect the Zone 2 speakers to Height2 channels on the Denon 4700. See page 67 in the Denon 4700 manual for details.

View attachment 136540

Ok thanks. So there isn't really a way to have the fans switch on our off with the AVR. I have it all in a separate room so it'd be a bit of a pain to walk to that room and manually turn fans on and off.

Regarding zone two...I use all 9 channels in a 5.2.4 configuration. If I added an external amp to drive the front three and used rear height 2 for zone two could I then reassign the other inputs to maintain the 5.2.4 configuration? Or would I be essentially not be able to do this?

Maybe I'm best off just getting a separate 2 channel AVR for the other zone... Was just thinking of I'm spending money, maybe it's better to spend it on separate to drive the LRC and use the internal amp for zone two (which isn't used that much).

 

[WildH]

Suppose i

Never, say never. While the Denon doesn't have power outlets you could plug into the USB port on the front of the Denon - but the front cover would need to be open. The other option would be a STITCH power strip https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=40874 This would allow Alexa and Google Home turn the fans off or on.

Suppose I could run it from my tv USB. I know that power turns on/off with the tv since it controls my bias lighting. Or maybe my Amazon fire cube does too....I'll play with it.

 

[JonfromCB]

Thank you all for the great info on this thread! Interesting and informative.

Two Questions:

1. Where are those who use these fans plugging them in so they turn on/off with the AVR?

2. If I picked up a three channel Emotiva BasX amp to drive my Wharfedale Evo 4.4 FLR and 4C Center, could I use the 4700 amp L/R for a zone two set of speakers? If so, would there be significant signal degradation? I don't tend to drive my speakers to hard (mostly under 70 on the volume dial).

Addressing your first question about fans: With fans like AC Infinity that have a thermostat feature you don't need to use a trigger or "linked" on/off switch. I have three of them sitting on top of two AVRs and an amp. They are always plugged in and turned on with their thermostats set at 88 degrees, and when the AVRs or amp heat up to 88 the fans come on and when the equipment is turned off and the fans cool the units to below 88 the fans automatically turn off...no switches, no triggers and I don't have to do anything.