Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[Macfox]

The pre-amp feature of the Denon 3700, 4700 and 6700 offer a superior upgrade in flexibility. The 4500 is a relic in comparison. The 4500 offers fewer Auro-3D features, no "Pre-amp" mode and it's a significantly older design. I would much rather own a Denon 3700 or 4700.

Agreed about Auro. IMO it's the best option for using the center channel for stereo music, but the 4500 already has decent Auro support. When using a separate power amplifier, the x700 series does have a clear benefit.
However, when using internal amps only and not needing HDMI 2.1, I wouldn't bother with upgrading a 4500 to a 4700 (let alone a lower model). They are highly comparable receivers.

However, I believe @patoulol referenced the power difference between the 4xxx and 8xxx series. While the 8xxx series have better build quality and components used, the objective performance difference isn't massive. Multichannel power and stability into low impedance or otherwise difficult loads is probably better, but the price difference buys one a very decent external amplifier to offload the front channels to. This option might result in even better performance, so the scepticism against buying a much more expensive receiver is understandable. Of course, arguments can be made for and against all three options (4xxx series, 4xxx series + external amplifier or 8xxx series).

 

[amper42]

Agreed about Auro. IMO it's the best option for using the center channel for stereo music, but the 4500 already has decent Auro support. When using a separate power amplifier, the x700 series does have a clear benefit.
However, when using internal amps only and not needing HDMI 2.1, I wouldn't bother with upgrading a 4500 to a 4700 (let alone a lower model). They are highly comparable receivers.

When I upgraded from Denon 4500 to 4700 I noticed the 4700 offered an array of Auro-3D settings that were not available on my previous Denon 4500. The other thing I noticed was "pre-amp" only mode added another level of performance that just wasn't available on the 4500. There are few audiophiles that only want to stick with the internal amps and not try external amps.

Over and over I see new questions from Denon receiver owners wanting to expand to external amps. Even those on this message board who praise the internal amps all have external amps.

So why would someone whose likely bitten with the Audiophile bug want to limit their future upgradability for a few hundred dollars in price difference. I'm not saying every 4500 owner should sell. I just can't recommend a 4500 for a new purchase. It's past it's prime and old tech.

 

[amper42]

However, I believe @patoulol referenced the power difference between the 4xxx and 8xxx series. While the 8xxx series have better build quality and components used, the objective performance difference isn't massive. Multichannel power and stability into low impedance or otherwise difficult loads is probably better, but the price difference buys one a very decent external amplifier to offload the front channels to. This option might result in even better performance, so the scepticism against buying a much more expensive receiver is understandable. Of course, arguments can be made for and against all three options (4xxx series, 4xxx series + external amplifier or 8xxx series).

If the buyer has a limited view that the Denon receiver power rating is important, then they are not aware of the full benefit of Pre-Amp mode. The Denon 3700, 4700, 6700 can have any level of amplification using external options. I could care less if the Denon receiver has 80W, 100W, 150W or anything in-between as I don't have to depend on them anyway.

 

[patoulol]

The pre-amp feature of the Denon 3700, 4700 and 6700 offer a superior upgrade in flexibility. The 4500 is a relic in comparison. The 4500 offers fewer Auro-3D features, no "Pre-amp" mode and it's a significantly older design. I would much rather own a Denon 3700 or 4700.

Sorry, I meant 4700, obviously.
we are precisely on the 4700 thread

 

[patoulol]

my friends,
as expected I received my X4700 which is working fine. Thank you

a friend lent me an Ncore Hypex external stereo amp for the L R and I hear no difference ... and the sound is already sufficient with the x4700 alone. My room is small (19m2)

I will not order the Hypex or the Purifi for my use ... because 1000 dollars for no difference

 

[peng]

my friends,
as expected I received my X4700 which is working fine. Thank you

a friend lent me an Ncore Hypex external stereo amp for the L R and I hear no difference ... and the sound is already sufficient with the x4700 alone. My room is small (19m2)

I will not order the Hypex or the Purifi for my use ... because 1000 dollars for no difference

Good to know you like it. With the Hypex amp, did you have to turn the volume a few clicks to get the same sound pressure level? And which (the make/model) Hypex amp was it? Just curious, thank you.

 

[patoulol]

https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/ampl...2x500w-4-ohm-p-13344.html?search_query=NC500%


my friend used a sound level meter and equalized the level in the denon menu

in his own room cinema, he hears a difference but not on my system, neither do I.

with the expected money I will buy something else: a second subwoofer

 

[amper42]

https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/ampl...2x500w-4-ohm-p-13344.html?search_query=NC500%


my friend used a sound level meter and equalized the level in the denon menu

in his own room cinema, he hears a difference but not on my system, neither do I.

with the expected money I will buy something else: a second subwoofer

If you run Audyssey there is no need for a manual adjustment. From my experience. it's the best way to configure levels and setup the speakers.

 

[peng]

If you run Audyssey there is no need for a manual adjustment. From my experience. it's the best way to configure levels and setup the speakers.

Obviously, I just want to know without re-running Audyssey what was the difference. The OEM version Ncore amps would have a gain of about 3 dB lower, I just wonder if the level difference reflect exactly or close to that.

 

[patoulol]

If you run Audyssey there is no need for a manual adjustment. From my experience. it's the best way to configure levels and setup the speakers.

we didn't think about it ... thanks for this tips

what was the difference.

I don't know, I will ask him

 

[AdamG]

Obviously, I just want to know without re-running Audyssey what was the difference. The OEM version Ncore amps would have a gain of about 3 dB lower, I just wonder if the level difference reflect exactly or close to that.

Hi @peng,

I recently added a Ncore Amp to my 8500h. The channels that moved from an Emotiva XPA-5 to the Ncore amp all pretty much were channel adjusted upward between 1 to 3dbs above previous settings. Not purely scientific and just antidotal observation. But in general Audyssey did appear to boost the channel trims over what they previously were.

 

[patoulol]

Hi peng,

I recently added a Ncore Amp to my 8500h. The channels that moved from an Emotiva XPA-5 to the Ncore amp all pretty much were channel adjusted upward between 1 to 3dbs above previous settings. Not purely scientific and just antidotal observation. But in general Audyssey did appear to boost the channel trims over what they previously were.

and how did you feel between Hypex vs 8500 alone?

 

[AdamG]

and how did you feel between Hypex vs 8500 alone?

Good question. My front 3 are 3-4 ohm loads. Dropping to 2 ohms in some frequency. They are also rated to 400 Watts. Another antidotal observation. The biggest improvement was noted in just 2 channel mode. Previously using just the 8500h or the Emo, my mains fell of a cliff at 80-90 hz. I mean cliff too. So I had to cross them at 90 to 100 hz or there was a big FR gap between the Mains and the Subs. Now with the Ncore the mains are holding their own down to solid 60Hz output and decent output at 50hz. This allowed me to drop the mains crossover and listen more 2.0 with solid performance. Where as previously 2.2 was required. I did do some rew sweeps and they confirmed what I heard (I did not keep the graphs, they were real-time graphs used purely to reset crossovers and channel trim adjustments for 2 channel music). I suppose my mains needed more gas to dig deeper. The Ncore has been a fun journey. In the end did I really need it? Nope. If you already have subs then the extra hp will result in no to very little improvement. It was a pure experiment driven by all the stuff I have absorbed here and my desire to see what pure 2.0 sound my mains we capable. FYI I also used AudioTools app with my IPad Pro and Umic utilizing the FFT and RFA graphs to further tweak to taste.

 

[patoulol]

[...] In the end did I really need it? Nope. [.....]

Wow! thank you for this very detailed and argued answer

It sounds like what I think, if we already have good audio rendering, the rest won't change the face of the world.

@AdamG247
What is the detail of your system pls?

 

[AdamG]

Wow! thank you for this very detailed and argued answer

It sounds like what I think, if we already have good audio rendering, the rest won't change the face of the world.

@AdamG247
What is the detail of your system pls?

Hi @patoulol,

I run a 9.2.6 system. Mostly for Movies/Music. Denon 8500h, Emo XPA-5, Buckeye Ncore-502 6 channel Amp, Pair of JTR 2400ulf Caps, ML ESL-X (L&R), ML ESL-C, bunch of streaming video devices, bluesound Node 2i, Schiit Modi 3+, Oppo-203, Base layer (9.) are all full size tower speakers of SVS or Klipsch origin.

 

[patoulol]

Hi @patoulol,

I run a 9.2.6 system. Mostly for Movies/Music. Denon 8500h, Emo XPA-5, Buckeye Ncore-502 6 channel Amp, Pair of JTR 2400ulf Caps, ML ESL-X (L&R), ML ESL-C, bunch of streaming video devices, bluesound Node 2i, Schiit Modi 3+, Oppo-203, Base layer (9.) are all full size tower speakers of SVS or Klipsch origin.

View attachment 130291

beautiful, you have taste

do you know if I can put my system on the forum?
I did not find a section dedicated to this

EDIT :
it's done, thank you Adam ! see my signature

 

[Music1969]

I won't be too bad if it is well ventilated, but in my opinion, $10-$20 investment on a little fan goes a long way. Even if not needed, it may help extend life..

Would you recommend a fan on top of AVR (sucking) or a fan below AVR (blowing) ?

Sucking from top is more practical but is blowing from bottom more effective?

 

[peng]

Would you recommend a fan on top of AVR (sucking) or a fan below AVR (blowing) ?

Sucking from top is more practical but is blowing from bottom more effective?

I have tried both ways and found not much difference. It most likely depends on each individual case (i.e. placement, how much space on top and sides etc.) All else being equal, sucking may be better in case the build in fans turn on prematurely for whatever reasons without you knowing.

Blowing from the bottom would seem best but I don't see an easy practical way to do it that way.

 

[Music1969]

I have tried both ways and found not much difference. It most likely depends on each individual case (i.e. placement, how much space on top and sides etc.) All else being equal, sucking may be better in case the build in fans turn on prematurely for whatever reasons without you knowing.

Blowing from the bottom would seem best but I don't see an easy practical way to do it that way.

Thanks! I guess also individual layout could mean bottom is blocked at the important areas.

So I guess top will always work whereas bottom might sometimes work best or sometimes not work at all.

 

[Bello]

Thanks! I guess also individual layout could mean bottom is blocked at the important areas.

So I guess top will always work whereas bottom might sometimes work best or sometimes not work at all.

You should always avoid sending air through a system for cooling. Doing so will have dust build-up, contaminating components. The more practical way would be across the top of the system from back out the front. You want to keep the top of the system clear of hot air. Not to ever have hot air return back down into the system. The system is designed to operate in an open air environment, meaning outside of an enclosed cabinet. No need for fans at that point. If your system is enclosed, you need to eradicate the hot air as described. Never Push air through the system. You are causing future issues with internal components and audio SINAD derogation over time. I've posted on Denon systems concerning heat (trapped) i;e; 4700 several times. Its inherited system design or bc of an enclosure (cabinet) setup.

You can search my past post. I've tested several side by side bench tests. 4700 / 6700 w/ multiple systems.

Dust is a system killer. Especially in an audio setup where sound quality is the ultimate goal. Rule #1 Never contaminate components w/ dust.

Hope this helps.