Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[oupee]

Hello

I currently have an old Cambridge 650R with Paradigm Studio 100s and the large 690 . in a 20m2 room

View attachment 128645

My project is an x4700 with a D Ncore 2x250W 4 Ohm

what do you think my friends?

High quality speakers. I would buy a Denon 8500 or a Marantz 8015 straight away

 

[peng]

Hello

I currently have an old Cambridge 650R with Paradigm Studio 100s and the large 690 . in a 20m2 room

View attachment 128645

My project is an x4700 with a D Ncore 2x250W 4 Ohm

what do you think my friends?

I think you may as well go with the Ncore 2X500 W 4 Ohms. Remember 250W vs 125 W is 3 dB, 3 clicks on the volume!
The Studio 100s, regardless of versions, could be a little tough for AVRs and the smaller power amps. Still, it ultimately depends on your distance, and your listening habit.

 

[patoulol]

I think you may as well go with the Ncore 2X500 W 4 Ohms. Remember 250W vs 125 W is 3 dB, 3 clicks on the volume!
The Studio 100s, regardless of versions, could be a little tough for AVRs and the smaller power amps. Still, it ultimately depends on you distance, and your listening habit.

thank you,
I listen "high" and 3.6 meters from the speakers.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/paradigm_studio100_v3/

High quality speakers. I would buy a Denon 8500 or a Marantz 8015 straight away

seriously? yet I even thought that an x4700 would be too big

an x8500? I'm afraid to put my money for nothing more

 

[peng]

thank you,
I listen "high" and 3.6 meters from the speakers.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/paradigm_studio100_v3/



seriously? yet I even thought that an x4700 would be too big

an x8500? I'm afraid to put my money for nothing more

Do you plan on using the Purifi amps for all channels, or you will be using the internal amps as well, for some channels?

 

[patoulol]

Do you plan on using the Purifi amps for all channels, or you will be using the internal amps as well, for some channels?

Purifi amps for the two front speakers (right and left)

the internal x4700 amps will take care of the center speaker and the 4 small "Focal Sibs xl" (souround)

good or not ?

 

[peng]

Purifi amps for the two front speakers (right and left)

the internal x4700 amps will take care of the center speaker and the 4 small "Focal Sibs xl" (souround)

good ou not ?

Purifi amps for the two front speakers (right and left)

the internal x4700 amps will take care of the center speaker and the 4 small "Focal Sibs xl" (souround)

good ou not ?

Perfect, just curious, why Purifi's?

 

[patoulol]

Perfect, just curious, why Purifi's?

I'm still hesitating .. I think I'll take "HPA-S500NC Class D Stereo Amplifier NCore 2x500W"

https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/ampl...tereo-class-d-ncore-2x500w-4-ohm-p-13344.html

because I would not hear the difference with the purified (vs 500NC) ...

... and I hope to hear a difference with 500NC (compared to the x4700 alone) on the front speakers

 

[Macfox]

I think you may as well go with the Ncore 2X500 W 4 Ohms. Remember 250W vs 125 W is 3 dB, 3 clicks on the volume!
The Studio 100s, regardless of versions, could be a little tough for AVRs and the smaller power amps. Still, it ultimately depends on you distance, and your listening habit.

Just curious: what makes them so tough on amplifiers? Specs I found indicated a sensitivity of 93 dB and impedance of 8 Ohms. Seems very easy. My 4700 has no trouble driving 87 dB @ 4 Ohm speakers to moderately loud levels in a medium sized room. With the help of external amplification for the front speakers, I don't see any problems.

 

[peng]

Just curious: what makes them so tough on amplifiers? Specs I found indicated a sensitivity of 93 dB and impedance of 8 Ohms. Seems very easy. My 4700 has no trouble driving 87 dB @ 4 Ohm speakers to moderately loud levels in a medium sized room. With the help of external amplification for the front speakers, I don't see any problems.

Are you referring to the Studio 100? There are the probably 5 different versions of the Studio 100. I could only find the measurements of the V2 and V3. Both have relative low impedance and phase angles are not too friendly either. Regardless, I did say it depends on your distance and SPL you listen to, so yes the AVR may be fine even without an external amp under the right conditions.

Paradigm Reference Studio/100 v.2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v.3 Loudspeakers (11/2003) (soundstagenetwork.com)
Paradigm Reference Studio/100 v.3 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

The X4700H can drive 4 Ohm loads but if you use the 4 Ohm impedance setting, it will limit the output and if you don't you risk overheating the unit. One of two of those $10-$20 Infinity USB fans could help.

The bottom line is, many AVRs are rated for 4 Ohm speakers based on the use of the 4 Ohm impedance setting that limits the output. Bench tests always show good performance, such as 180 W for the X4700H to about 250 W into 4 Ohms for the AVR-X8500H, SR8015 and RX-A3080 at about 0.1% THD+N. The test conditions would typically be 2 channels driven into a 4 Ohm resistor load using a 1 kHz signal, and the test duration is likely not longer a minute or two, you have to ask Amir for the exact duration of such measurements.

 

[patoulol]

this is another good argument for using an external amp for the fronts and "freeing up power" reserve for the other speakers

A the X4700H

Just curious: What if I decide one day to put an amp for the center channel ? will it clip on x4700 ?

 

[peng]

this is another good argument for using an external amp for the fronts and "freeing up power" reserve for the other speakers

Just curious: What if I decide one day to put an amp for the center channel ? will it clip on x4700 ?

Not if you use preamp mode. If you use the amp assign, you can only disconnect the front left/right channels. In that case then yes, the center channel internal power amp may clip if you push hard enough and it would cause the pre out to degrade somewhat, as shown by the measurements.

 

[patoulol]

we come back to the advantage of the x8500 ah ... complicated

 

[Macfox]

Are you referring to the Studio 100? There are the probably 5 different versions of the Studio 100. I could only find the measurements of the V2 and V3. Both have relative low impedance and phase angles are not too friendly either. Regardless, I did say it depends on your distance and SPL you listen to, so yes the AVR may be fine even without an external amp under the right conditions.

Paradigm Reference Studio/100 v.2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v.3 Loudspeakers (11/2003) (soundstagenetwork.com)
Paradigm Reference Studio/100 v.3 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

The X4700H can drive 4 Ohm loads but if you use the 4 Ohm impedance setting, it will limit the output and if you don't you risk overheating the unit. One of two of those $10-$20 Infinity USB fans could help.

The bottom line is, many AVRs are rated for 4 Ohm speakers based on the use of the 4 Ohm impedance setting that limits the output. Bench tests always show good performance, such as 180 W for the X4700H to about 250 W into 4 Ohms for the AVR-X8500H, SR8015 and RX-A3080 at about 0.1% THD+N. The test conditions would typically be 2 channels driven into a 4 Ohm resistor load using a 1 kHz signal, and the test duration is likely not longer a minute or two, you have to ask Amir for the exact duration of such measurements.

View attachment 128664View attachment 128665

I see. My Dali Rubicons seem to be much more honestly specced with both average sensitivity and minimum impedance measured slightly above spec. Manufacturers should be legally forced to disclose actual measurement curves. A spec of 93 dB and 8 Ohm make for a whole other story than a measurement of 88 dB, minimum 3 Ohm and on average 4 Ohms at power hungry low frequencies.

 

[patoulol]

Not if you use preamp mode. If you use the amp assign, you can only disconnect the front left/right channels. In that case then yes, the center channel internal power amp may clip if you push hard enough and it would cause the pre out to degrade somewhat, as shown by the measurements.

thanks.

if it is not audible, it is not important

we have an idea of the volume which corresponds to "hard enough" ?

90 db ?

 

[peng]

thanks.

if it is not audible, it is not important

we have an idea of the volume which corresponds to "hard enough" ?

It depends on a few things, one being the recording level of the source content. If we assume the source is a blue ray star war movie, and it you have run auto setup/Audyssey, and the levels were set to 0 dB, +/- 1 to 2 dB, then I would say it is a safe assumption that if you volume setting stays below -10, the internal amps won't likely be clipping.

 

[patoulol]

-10, I never go. I'm wide then.

 

[amper42]

Are you referring to the Studio 100? There are the probably 5 different versions of the Studio 100. I could only find the measurements of the V2 and V3. Both have relative low impedance and phase angles are not too friendly either. Regardless, I did say it depends on your distance and SPL you listen to, so yes the AVR may be fine even without an external amp under the right conditions.

Paradigm Reference Studio/100 v.2 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v.3 Loudspeakers (11/2003) (soundstagenetwork.com)
Paradigm Reference Studio/100 v.3 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

The X4700H can drive 4 Ohm loads but if you use the 4 Ohm impedance setting, it will limit the output and if you don't you risk overheating the unit. One of two of those $10-$20 Infinity USB fans could help.

The bottom line is, many AVRs are rated for 4 Ohm speakers based on the use of the 4 Ohm impedance setting that limits the output. Bench tests always show good performance, such as 180 W for the X4700H to about 250 W into 4 Ohms for the AVR-X8500H, SR8015 and RX-A3080 at about 0.1% THD+N. The test conditions would typically be 2 channels driven into a 4 Ohm resistor load using a 1 kHz signal, and the test duration is likely not longer a minute or two, you have to ask Amir for the exact duration of such measurements.

View attachment 128664View attachment 128665

I would not recommend using the 4 ohm setting on the Denon 4700. It dramatically reduces power. I have a pair of Paradigm Studio Monitors that work fine with the Denon 4700. They fill the room with sound. I use the AC Infinity MULTIFAN S7 and it keeps the receiver cool. I wouldn't operate the Denon 4700 for an extended period with ANY speakers without these fans.

 

[patoulol]

I would not recommend using the 4 ohm setting on the Denon 4700. It dramatically reduces power. I have a pair of Paradigm Studio Monitors that work fine with the Denon 4700. They fill the room with sound. I use the AC Infinity MULTIFAN S7 and it keeps the receiver cool. I wouldn't operate the Denon 4700 for an extended period with ANY speakers without these fans.

Thanks for the fan! I will order

ah so do not put 4 ohms in the settings x4700 ?

 

[Macfox]

Thanks for the fan! I will order

ah so do not put 4 ohms in the settings x4700 ?

Not if you want to use the available power.

 

[patoulol]

it heats terribly this x4700?