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AVRs seem to have a lot of differing use cases. If e. g. one likes Dirac Live and is some kind of "basshead" DLBC for the 4 sub outputs on the new Denons may be a straightforward choice.
Personally, I will potentially keep on wating even longer for Dirac MIMO (and not buy before I know on what models it will run). Furtunately, I am in no hurry at all.
AVRs seem to have a lot of differing use cases. If e. g. one likes Dirac Live and is some kind of "basshead" DLBC for the 4 sub outputs on the new Denons may be a straightforward choice.
Personally, I will potentially keep on wating even longer for Dirac MIMO (and not buy before I know on what models it will run). Furtunately, I am in no hurry at all.
Dirac Live only supports one subwoofer while Audyssey XT32 has support for at least two, even in older receivers. For more than one subwoofer one has to buy a DLBC license, that will be offered in the future sometime i.e. vaporware. Still expensive, though, for those with more than one subwoofer. Still lacks dynamic volume so a downgrade in sound quality.
The main point of multiple subwoofers is for more even bass, not just because you’re a “basshead”.
Hi everyone! I have a little question. If my room need correction, what should give me the best results, the x3700h with audyssey or the x3800h with dirac? Looks like X3700h > x3800h and dirac > audyssey, which one will have the biggest impact? Also, si there any alternative under 5000$? Any avr or processor with dirac that mesured well? Thank you!
Any X3700H you can buy new today (manufactured after May 2021 and ending with a serial number higher than 70001) has the same TI DACs as found in the X3800H and therefore the same SINAD performance. Additionally, AKM models manufactured before that date have a broken HDMI 2.1 implementation which is actually a huge problem for anyone who needs it (say if you have a PS5 or Xbox Series X).
As for Dirac Live. Without DLBC, which the RZ50 lacks and which the X3800H may not have until 2024, I'm not sure I'd necessarily go with it over Audyssey XT32 (which does do bass correction). I've had very good results with Audyssey MultiEQ-X ($200 on PC) on the X3700H and I likely will go with it next year over Dirac on the Cinema 40 at least until DLBC is available. Also note that the X3700H has dual independent subwoofer out, and the X3800H has 4-way independent subwoofer out. The RZ50 only has a single (mirrored) subwoofer out.
It's a shame that Amir's review does not mention the AKM fire nor the DAC change that happened on all Denon receivers in 2021. I think it's causing a lot of confusion where people are thinking that *any* X3700H is better than the X3800H, which is simply not true (especially with the HDMI bug).
Dirac Live only supports one subwoofer while Audyssey XT32 has support for at least two, even in older receivers. For more than one subwoofer one has to buy a DLBC license, that will be offered in the future sometime i.e. vaporware. Still expensive, though, for those with more than one subwoofer. Still lacks dynamic volume so a downgrade in sound quality.
The main point of multiple subwoofers is for more even bass, not just because you’re a “basshead”.
You seem to overinterpret my simple statement. I was just trying to give one example why somebody interested in the 4 sub outs might look forward to DLBC.
Feel free to replace "basshead" with e. g. "tasteful audiophile" (or just some other fitting characterization of some group of people with a specific interest in audio) if this is more to your liking. I won't disagree because I was aware of the usefulness of multiple subs before your kind and of course correct remark. But even after an adjustment the example remains just an example.
Let me try to make my major point in a different way. The 4 independent sub outs may be interesting for some or even many. For those, DL without BC does not make the most sense. The two most reasonable options seem to be either staying with Audyssey or aiming at DLBC. I am not making any recommendation for one over the other. But the RZ50 may not be an alternative here.
I'm guessing because the youtubers rarely give a bad review, knowing if they did manufacturers would be hesitant to send any more product to them. On the other hand if a manufacturer sends product to Amir or Erin they do so knowing that measurements don't lie. So they'd have to be pretty confident in their product to do so.
The way that they test it, there is no sensible way for them to write a bad review, as all the potential flaws are not properly revealed in their testing, and therefore all AVRs are the same except the interface...
Yes it is, but a chance for DLBC in the future is better than no chance. Plus multi-sub support out of the box rather than single sub only. If you plan to use the device for a long time, I'd still consider an x3800h over RZ-50 (if you can even find an RZ-50), although if you don't absolutely have to buy an AVR this year I'd keep waiting until DLBC is implemented and working correctly or at least until there are some appropriate (blind and apples to apples) comparisons of Audyssey vs Dirac, which will probably be easier to conduct once the Denon AVRs are available with both.
Also note that the X3700H has dual independent subwoofer out, and the X3800H has 4-way independent subwoofer out. The RZ50 only has a single (mirrored) subwoofer out.
You can put multiple subs in a room so bass response is not localized. It seems that more members than I thought have room for 4 subwoofers. I do not in my space.
You can put multiple subs in a room so bass response is not localized. It seems that more members than I thought have room for 4 subwoofers. I do not in my space.
Not speaking of 4 subs, but the previous poster intimated having 4 separate sub outputs were somehow more desirable than 4 sub outs that all contain the same program material. I was just looking for clarification on why this would be preferable over the 3800's 4 independent sub outs but all sending the exact same program material.
tecnically - whatever amount of subs you have, your setup will still be x.1.x (unless you are able to put your hands on handful of available DtsX Pro mixes, that have 2 LFE channels), so here you are right.
Still there is lot of bass content in all the other channels, that you normally bass manage and lump together in your subs. So independent sub routing makes sense, if you use AVP as an active crossover.
e.g. in my current 9.6.7 setup I have one sub dedicated just for C channel, creating “large“ speaker. This sub has no LFE duty. Although my C is 3 way/4 drivers 1.2m wide monster, it still benefits from extra driver to take it down to 20Hz. Immersion and screen side sound coherence improved dramatically compared to usual “let’s send everything below 80 Hz to all subs” approach.
Not speaking of 4 subs, but the previous poster intimated having 4 separate sub outputs were somehow more desirable than 4 sub outs that all contain the same program material. I was just looking for clarification on why this would be preferable over the 3800's 4 independent sub outs but all sending the exact same program material.
It's not about program material but about being able to change each sub signal independently with EQ. That was not possible at all due to hardware limitations in prior Denons. It's a requirement for DLBC to function as well as other modern multi-sub optimizers like MSO.
Any X3700H you can buy new today (manufactured after May 2021 and ending with a serial number higher than 70001) has the same TI DACs as found in the X3800H and therefore the same SINAD performance. Additionally, AKM models manufactured before that date have a broken HDMI 2.1 implementation which is actually a huge problem for anyone who needs it (say if you have a PS5 or Xbox Series X).
As for Dirac Live. Without DLBC, which the RZ50 lacks and which the X3800H may not have until 2024, I'm not sure I'd necessarily go with it over Audyssey XT32 (which does do bass correction). I've had very good results with Audyssey MultiEQ-X ($200 on PC) on the X3700H and I likely will go with it next year over Dirac on the Cinema 40 at least until DLBC is available. Also note that the X3700H has dual independent subwoofer out, and the X3800H has 4-way independent subwoofer out. The RZ50 only has a single (mirrored) subwoofer out.
It's a shame that Amir's review does not mention the AKM fire nor the DAC change that happened on all Denon receivers in 2021. I think it's causing a lot of confusion where people are thinking that *any* X3700H is better than the X3800H, which is simply not true (especially with the HDMI bug).
"Any X3700H you can buy new today (manufactured after May 2021 and ending with a serial number higher than 70001) has the same TI DACs as found in the X3800H and therefore the same SINAD performance".
Would the same apply to an X4700H bought new today and the new X4800H?
Actually this is where I am not fully clear [actually I was thinking about buying top of the line Marantz to my tertiary setup]
If I understand it correctly - either you use "standard" setting - and then you do Audyssey SUB EQ HT - and global EQ.
OR
You use "directional" and then you EQ each sub individually
Actually this is where I am not fully clear [actually I was thinking about buying top of the line Marantz to my tertiary setup]
If I understand it correctly - either you use "standard" setting - and then you do Audyssey SUB EQ HT - and global EQ.
OR
You use "directional" and then you EQ each sub individually