Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[voodooless]

let alone ART that needs a lot more processing power (and acoustic power).

From the information Dirac has divulged, it only about 20% more processing power than multi-sub DLBC.

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

From the information Dirac has divulged, it only about 20% more processing power than multi-sub DLBC.

Has I already wrote about multi-sub DLBC: I hope you are right and I'm wrong. Unfortunately, in so many cases, I've seen machines technically perfectly capable, not getting some features because of marketing choices, to promote the more expensive models.

 

[Chromatischism]

Sure, but they have already stated it is coming for this model. A bait and switch could open them up to a lawsuit for false advertising.

 

[HooStat]

Imagine that Dirac charges $250 for the new product and kicks back $75 of that to the manufacturer. All of a sudden the manufacturer makes more money on a product they already sold. That would make it quite profitable. I have no idea if this would/could happen, but there are reasons for the AVR manufacturer to be ok with "lower cost" units having access to Dirac.

EDIT. This might be the case, for example, if the AVR manufacturer needs to enable something on their end, or to issue a firmware update, to allow for the Dirac upgrade.

 

[Descartes]

Not to turn this into an Anthem thread, but I'm curious about how loud this fan noise is for it to be unacceptable. Are the complaints coming from people who have dedicated (and super quiet) home theaters? Can you hear the fan interfering with the signal? Has anyone provided SPL readings? I ask because Anthem is at the top of the list for me after this current thread.

My experience with the Anthem AVM90 is very positive so far, the fan has never turned on. The unit is on top of my audio rack with good air circulation and my room gets warm as it faces south west!

 

[ivo.f.doma]

Sure, but they have already stated it is coming for this model. A bait and switch could open them up to a lawsuit for false advertising.

Is there a written commitment somewhere that the 3800 will have it?

 

[Descartes]

Is there a written commitment somewhere that the 3800 will have it?

Maybe

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

Maybe

Is there? I’m seriously leaning towards the 3800, DLBC multi-sub (even at a 500€/$ price) would seal the deal for me: I’d get all the upgrades I want (Dirac, HDMI 2.1, IMAX and Auro) for around 2000€/$ (my reseller has the 3800 at 1650€).
Is there any feedback about the low pre outputs? I’m gonna use it just as a preamp and I’m afraid my subwoofers (Klipsch SPL-100 could turn off automatically) and my stereo amp, that has low input sensitivity when set in “bypass mode” (now the front channels are set +5dB over the other channels to level match) could go out of scale level when calibrating.
My reseller is pushing me towards Anthem, he says it’s another level, especially as a pre. But I’d totally miss Dirac and don’t like the idea of getting stuck with a proprietary roomeq (ARC) like I had for many years with Onkyo’s terrible AccuEQ. And most of all, to get all the pre channels I need, I’d have to go for the 740, which is almost twice the price of the Denon.

 

[peng]

Is there? I’m seriously leaning towards the 3800, DLBC multi-sub (even at a 500€/$ price) would seal the deal for me: I’d get all the upgrades I want (Dirac, HDMI 2.1, IMAX and Auro) for around 2000€/$ (my reseller has the 3800 at 1650€).
Is there any feedback about the low pre outputs? I’m gonna use it just as a preamp and I’m afraid my subwoofers (Klipsch SPL-100 could turn off automatically) and my stereo amp, that has low input sensitivity when set in “bypass mode” (now the front channels are set +5dB over the other channels to level match) could go out of scale level when calibrating.
My reseller is pushing me towards Anthem, he says it’s another level, especially as a pre. But I’d totally miss Dirac and don’t like the idea of getting stuck with a proprietary roomeq (ARC) like I had for many years with Onkyo’s terrible AccuEQ. And most of all, to get all the pre channels I need, I’d have to go for the 740, which is almost twice the price of the Denon.

What is your concerns about the X3800H's pre out? The 1.4 V or 1.5 V that has been mentioned so many times are not the maximum output voltage of the preamp/dac. It is the output voltage at the level where the THD+N/SINAD are at its best. If you want to see the SINAD versus output voltage you need to look at the graph and determine if the SINAD at 2 V is excessive for you. In this case, it was about 86 dB, that is 0.005% THD+N in preamp mode. In non preamp mode, it was measured (by Amir) at about 76 dB SINAD, or 0.017% THD+N.

The voltage can go much higher, likely higher than 3.5 V, even 4 V. How high it can go pass 2 V or 3 V, depends on the distortions level you are willing to accept.

 

[Trell]

Is there? I’m seriously leaning towards the 3800, DLBC multi-sub (even at a 500€/$ price) would seal the deal for me: I’d get all the upgrades I want (Dirac, HDMI 2.1, IMAX and Auro) for around 2000€/$ (my reseller has the 3800 at 1650€).

Do note that D&M has said that DLBC will only be available sometime in 2024.

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

Do note that D&M has said that DLBC will only be available sometime in 2024.

I hope also for 2023 models and not just for the latest gretest 2024 ones.

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

What is your concerns about the X3800H's pre out? The 1.4 V or 1.5 V that has been mentioned so many times are not the maximum output voltage of the preamp/dac. It is the output voltage at the level where the THD+N/SINAD are at its best. If you want to see the SINAD versus output voltage you need to look at the graph and determine if the SINAD at 2 V is excessive for you. In this case, it was about 86 dB, that is 0.005% THD+N in preamp mode. In non preamp mode, it was measured (by Amir) at about 76 dB SINAD, or 0.017% THD+N.

The voltage can go much higher, likely higher than 3.5 V, even 4 V. How high it can go pass 2 V or 3 V, depends on the distortions level you are willing to accept.

In this same thread, another user, in this post, wrote that he returned his 3800 because, among other things, his subwoofers weren't turning on automatically because of the signal being too low to engage the function.

I'm not that worried about SINAD: I don't use the AVR for music listening (well ok, there's movies' sound tracks) and btw my current Onkyo PR-RZ5100 measures even worse in that department.

 

[sask15]

Peng, i changed my amp to an Anthem PVA5 and it says in its specs that it needs 1.12v for the 125w rms that it outputs. So looking at the SINAD in the 3800 review I should be at around 92db. With the old Akm dacs I would have been right around 101db so a rough 9-10db drop but the 92db with the Anthem PVA5 should still work great correct? The Anthem seems to sound great with my 4800 so happy regardless. shouldnt be anything audible or a problem with max output with this amp receiver combo? Hopefully some reviews start popping up soon here. Thanks

 

[peng]

In this same thread, another user, in this post, wrote that he returned his 3800 because, among other things, his subwoofers weren't turning on automatically because of the signal being too low to engage the function.

I'm not that worried about SINAD: I don't use the AVR for music listening (well ok, there's movies' sound tracks) and btw my current Onkyo PR-RZ5100 measures even worse in that department.

That's kind of an outlier scenario and it could be for different reasons, such as the owner had the subwoofer volume turned too low, or for something else. Most others don't have such an issue. All available measurements of Denon AVRs on Audioholics and Audiosciencereviews.com showed the pre out voltage are not an issue except for some extreme case.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

In this same thread, another user, in this post, wrote that he returned his 3800 because, among other things, his subwoofers weren't turning on automatically because of the signal being too low to engage the function.

I'm not that worried about SINAD: I don't use the AVR for music listening (well ok, there's movies' sound tracks) and btw my current Onkyo PR-RZ5100 measures even worse in that department.

Nah. Don’t worry about the subs. Either the sub was broken or the wake up sensitivity not configured correctly. Subs need levels well below 1V to wake up otherwise it would be ear shattering loud before it switches on. I have two subs currently connected and had tested three models and they all switched on.

 

[Trell]

Nah. Don’t worry about the subs. Either the sub was broken or the wake up sensitivity not configured correctly. Subs need levels well below 1V to wake up otherwise it would be ear shattering loud before it switches on. I have two subs currently connected and had tested three models and they all switched on.

Depends. When listening to music or watching TV at a fairly low volume my older SVS subwoofer could go into standby, so when I upgraded to newer SVS subwoofers I made sure they had a trigger input. Solved that problem that was clearly audible.

This was with Denon AVR-X4200W, a 2015 model that I still use daily.

 

[peng]

Peng, i changed my amp to an Anthem PVA5 and it says in its specs that it needs 1.12v for the 125w rms that it outputs. So looking at the SINAD in the 3800 review I should be at around 92db. With the old Akm dacs I would have been right around 101db so a rough 9-10db drop but the 92db with the Anthem PVA5 should still work great correct? The Anthem seems to sound great with my 4800 so happy regardless. shouldnt be anything audible or a problem with max output with this amp receiver combo? Hopefully some reviews start popping up soon here. Thanks

In my opinion, 92 dB is not a problem at all, the 3800 or 4800 should work well with the Anthem power amp.

 

[sask15]

Great. Thank you for your help. Appreciate it.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Depends. When listening to music or watching TV at a fairly low volume my older SVS subwoofer could go into standby, so when I upgraded to newer SVS subwoofers I made sure they had a trigger input. Solved that problem that was clearly audible.

This was with Denon AVR-X4200W, a 2015 model that I still use daily.

But wasn’t that a problem with the sub then and less with the Denon?

 

[Trell]

But wasn’t that a problem with the sub then and less with the Denon?

Sure, most likely, but for me the solution was using the trigger outputs. The 3800 have one and could potentially be put to good use.