Deciding Between NCX500, Purifi Eigentakt and Nilai

[NTK]

I don't understand when you say that the average use is 10W. That really doesn't sound like much to me...

You probably have underestimated how low the average power required is for normal music listening. With 10 W using 2 speakers with the typical sensitivity of 86 dBSPL at 1 W, 1m free field, the in-room average SPL at 12 ft distance is about 91 dBSPL. That is well into the hazardous for hearing health level.

Peak SPL Calculator

Noise and Hearing Loss - Noise and Occupational Hearing Loss | NIOSH | CDC

NIOSH established a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 85 A-weighted decibels (dBA) averaged over an eight-hour workday. Workers who are exposed to noise at or above the NIOSH REL are at risk of developing significant hearing loss over their working lifetime.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Jim Creek]

I’m the guy that started this thread. If anyone is interested to know what I chose, it was the VTV Purifi Eigentakt. I puchased it from VTV Amplifier in July 2023. Warren shipped the Eigentakt the same day I placed the order. It took two days for delivery from Ohio to Wisconsin via UPS.
The amp is performing wonderfully in my stereo system, dead quiet, great detail, barely gets warm, very efficient. It comes with SpeakON connectors which are excellent (Also has banana connectors). The price dropped since I purchased mine, from $1000 down to $889. I think its a high value IMHO.

My speakers are Monitor Audio Silver 100 gen6. They are rated at 88db. The Eigentakt easily drives these to ear splitting levels cleanly. The Eigentakt and Silver 100 speaks work well together.

 

[Vhond]

Do you coincidentally know why VTV doesn't make their own versions of Nilai?

 

[Jim Creek]

Do you coincidentally know why VTV doesn't make their own versions of Nilai?

I do not know the reason. Drop them an email. Warren responds very quickly.

 

[Balthazar B]

Do you coincidentally know why VTV doesn't make their own versions of Nilai?

Because to this point Nilai distribution has been focused on the DIY market. There are a couple of manufacturers/assemblers who sell completed DIY builds, but until Hypex makes the parts available through normal wholesale channels, it'll continue to be more constrained. Not unlike how Purifi Eigentakt was during the first 6-9 months after it was introduced as a generally available eval kit.

 

[Vhond]

Yeah but Audiophonics for instance has their own implementation of the stereo version
view over here

 

[ahard]

I gotta say that I'm loving my Apollon NCx500 premium amp. I've played several movies since Thursday including Dune and Thor: Love and Thunder and it's not getting hot to the touch. It was barely warm during Dune and Thor and it was less hot than my class A/B 5 channel Marantz amp that I use for my Atmos ceiling speakers.

 

[Balthazar B]

Yeah but Audiophonics for instance has their own implementation of the stereo version
view over here

Sure, and there were customizations of the Purifi platform, but it was by no means in wide commercial distribution by more than 3-4 amp mfrs for several months after it was introduced. I think NAD was the first major manufacturer to use it, and arguably it was a niche technology until that point. So today, about a year after Nilai was released, there's Audiophonics, Deer Creek, and Apollon selling complete amplifiers (AFAIK; sorry if I left anyone out). Would be nice to have more, but perhaps Hypex has signalled to its OEMs that based on feedback from the DIY crowd, there'll be a tweaked revision coming soon which will be in full commercial distribution?

 

[Vhond]

I don't know if Nilai is going to be a commercial used technology (Hypex marketed the NCoreX for that) and I hope they will come with an even better version of Nilai (although I think that wouldn't be soon).

 

[thezoneC30]

Hi !

I have a little question, I have the 5 channel NCx500 model, and the case is very hot (to the touch) in use, like 45/46°C.
It is placed in a TV cabinet (which is 6cm away from the wall, not stuck to) with the back completely open as you can see in the photo.

I had a 3-channel Audiophonics Purifi 1ET400 which ran much cooler. But Tibor told me that the NCx500 runs hotter and furthermore, I have 5 channels and a bigger power supply here. I would just like to be reassured that I am not the only one with this model that has such a high temperature in use.

Did you noticed that too ? Thanks.

Hey there, I also have a 3-channel Audiophonics Purifi 1ET400 and it runs so cool regardless of how hard it is driven. In completel opposite to that I also have a 6ch Hypex NC252Mp from Buckeye and that thing runs hot as hell even if it is not being used and just on!

I'm guessing it has something to do with the difference in cases, Audiophonics is heavy and feels like it's made from quality materials, whereas Buckeye is............well a tin container basically. Pretty budget.

 

[Artcore87]

Hi, I'm looking at getting one of these amps, probably ncx500. The VTV page is the only one that gives multiple input buffer / op amp options.

Does anyone have any experience or insight into how much of a difference this can make, and what choices are best? There are too many choices... they should just have a Standard, Better, and Best option at most. The cost varies a lot and I doubt it tracks with sound quality necessarily, but I'm willing to spend the extra if one of these options would make even a small but appreciable difference to the highs and soundstage (likely where you'd hear it if at all).

Also not familiar with the speaker terminal options... Is it worth upgrading to one of these options? Don't want speakon, but could the WTB options improve the connection in such a way as to make any audible difference at all, due to the standard binding post's material?

And if none of those differences constitute an audible benefit, then I'd probably go with Buckeye as it seems to be the cheapest for a stereo ncx500 amp. If anyone knows of a cheaper option than that (shipped to America), do let me know. I'd really like a Nilai amplifier, but I need the 380w/ch vs 260 @ 8 ohms.

 

[ZZM]

Hey there, I also have a 3-channel Audiophonics Purifi 1ET400 and it runs so cool regardless of how hard it is driven. In completel opposite to that I also have a 6ch Hypex NC252Mp from Buckeye and that thing runs hot as hell even if it is not being used and just on!

I'm guessing it has something to do with the difference in cases, Audiophonics is heavy and feels like it's made from quality materials, whereas Buckeye is............well a tin container basically. Pretty budget.

Hi, Apollon's case I have (Premium) is heavier than Audiophonics one, truly exceptional quality build. In my opinion, in my installation, NCx500 sounds better than Purifi 1ET400. I have now more bass on my Aria 926 in stereo (apparently the recurring "problem" reported by customers with Purifi), it's more "dynamic" and love the soundstage.

I also tried boXem audio amp, very good too (and more affordable) !

I just have to sell the audiophonics now, and maybe try someday 1612 OPA (which is in the boXem) or Sonic Imagery 994 if I can (have 1656 in my Apollon) to see the difference in sound.

 

[AcousticTheory]

Some of the comments from Hypex about Nilai vs NCore commented that the NCore amps were optimized for lowest distortion with the amount of feedback that was possible to use based on their lower open loop gain, and this was done by using shorter 'dead time' between either the positive or negative side output device being powered on. Class-D amps with shorter 'dead time' (already incredibly short, in the nanoseconds) tend to generate more heat and be less efficient with signals around the zero crossing (such as quiescent noise), while the amps with the longer 'dead time' are more efficient but generate more distortion near the zero crossing, needing more feedback. The Nilai amps have more open loop gain, so they could use longer 'dead time' together with more feedback to optimize the distortion behavior of a longer dead time, reducing their quiescent heat generation. PuriFi amps are supposedly using even higher open loop gain, so they can use even more feedback and optimize for more efficient operation at idle. Also keep in mind that the chassis of the NCore and Nilai builds being sold by a lot of amp builders aren't very large, and the case itself is the heatsink, so the quiescent heat may be lower than a Class-AB linear 500W amplifier but there is less heatsinking area so the temperature over that area will be higher.

My NCx500 (Deer Creek) amps idle warm but not 'hot' - slightly less warm than some class-AB amps at idle and about the same as the linear voltage regulators in my Emotiva DC-1 DAC. I'll measure it sometime soon to provide actual numbers. I have an NC252MP (DIY Ghent kit) that also idles warm, with a similar temperature to the NCx500. I think it's an aspect of the family of amps, being optimized for the lowest possible distortion at the cost of higher idle heat.

Update: My NC252MP amp in the half-depth Ghent aluminum chassis runs at around 42.5 degrees C during light listening, and idles at the same temperature after 15 minutes of silence, with the half of the enclosure over the power supply being 0.5 deg C warmer. This isn’t hot but it is similar to the quiescent temperature of some class-AB amps I have had. My NCx500 reference configuration (with SMPS1200A700) in the full-depth Ghent aluminum chassis tops out at 37 C whether idling or playing at some spirited levels in a smallish room through my medium-efficiency Thiel CS1.7 speakers, and this is noticeably less warm than the NC252MP. I suspect a higher-power all in one module like the NC502MP would get hotter during idle, but I didn't find that I could make them run hot with my normal listening.

Curiously, owning both amps, I’ve found both the NC252MP and NCx500 benefit from about 5-10 minutes to stabilize after power-on from cold. Highs go from glassy and brittle to open and transparent during this time period, and everything seems to get more sonically 'organized'. This observation is just a subjective one for now but suggests something in the module is thermally stabilizing during this time period. The amp module still has analog sections that run in Class-A mode. Amir’s testing showed that there was something changing slightly during this time even though the amp was mostly stable according to his measurement after power-on.

 

[Mike_Trueman]

Seems that most people buy them for home theater systems. Are they not that good for music then?

 

[aitsu]

Seems that most people buy them for home theater systems. Are they not that good for music then?

I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion.
Mine is part of my home theater, but I do listen to 2 channel in that room as well and it performs superbly.

I bought a 9 channel because it was convenient to have the same amplifier driving all of my bed layer speakers.
All of my bed layer speakers are the same (GoldenEar Invisa SPS).
I will admit, this amp is overkill for these speakers in a fully treated room. I don’t think I’ve turned it up past -20db.

I have no doubt that a 2 channel NCx500 would drive a reference system beautifully.

 

[magchiel]

Seems that most people buy them for home theater systems. Are they not that good for music then?

Don't overthink this.

The NCx500, Nilai, 1ET400 and probably (while waiting for independent measurements) the 1ET6525SA are all equally great amps.
I expect even the NC122MP/NC252MP will absolutely fit the bill for you if it falls within your power requirements (having heard the latter paired with a Wiim Pro Plus and ELAC DBR62).

I suggest you make your decision based on module characteristics (e.g. required power, idle consumption, heat, ..), integrator's features (trigger, auto on/off, gain, clipping leds, VU-meters, ... ), esthetics (looks, size, ..) and potentially a deal (Black Friday is around the corner). And when all is said and done: follow your gut to keep yourself from second guessing your decision while you should just be enjoying your music. If you can't decide (and even though I'm principally against such practices for the benefit of the outfits and the environment) order both and keep the one you bond with.

For me it was the LPA-S400ET, as I liked the formfactor, I didn't need the power of the NCx500, I couldn't justify the premium for Nilai, I liked the prospect of running cooler, found a great deal and - more importantly - the Purifi felt ( :\P ) right (ironically, the Purifi was released right around the time I landed on ASR and found the "objectivist path", and has kept an attraction that I postponed for years before I finally scratched the itch about 15 months ago). No regrets to date and listening to it as I write this post (coincidentally like the previous poster on GoldenEars, however the Triton 5, with an ADI-2/4 Pro SE as source and the buffer bypassed), I don't feel the slightest itch for the 1ET6525SA. Probably different speakers, if anything.