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DAC burn-in/break-in? My Gustard X16 measurements

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Pdxwayne

Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #263
Again I appreciate that there are people being so patience with me and offering suggestions. Many to thanks and I will thank you all first!

@Blumlein 88, thanks for suggesting cooling down the DAC and measure for warm up effects!

@solderdude , so very appreciate you continue to offer tips to learn, even if you know what the final conclusion would be.

I have placed my x16 in my garage since 1am today and will use REW sweep to check E30 first to get a hang of it.

If indeed I still find nothing significant with x16, I will let it go, thanks all the experts here, and enjoy musics.

Here is the x16 on top of my freezer in garage. : )

20210227_121058.jpg
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #264
Here you go. Seventeen hours outside. And measured cold. Green one at the top is E30, in suspend mode prior, measured right after wake up, filter 1. Not that clean looking.

The bottom two lines are X16. Filter 1. Measured after outside in garage for 17 hours. Much cleaner on first power on. But, slope down and Left and Right channel NOT same level, even given same signal from REW and X16 is at 0db.

e30_vs_x16_cold.PNG
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #268
So the ~0.2db channels imbalance will create what kind of impression as compared to E30?
 

cursive

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So the ~0.2db channels imbalance will create what kind of impression as compared to E30?
Most people can hear maybe a 1db channel imbalance. .2 channel imbalance would be totally inaudible.

Here is a test you can do to test your own ears. https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=0.5

That tests for a .5db difference, still over twice as much of a difference as you're measuring. Just a note this isn't specifically channel imbalance, but just if you can hear a .5db difference in volume in general.
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #270
Most people can hear maybe a 1db channel imbalance. .2 channel imbalance would be totally inaudible.

Here is a test you can do to test your own ears. https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=0.5

That tests for a .5db difference, still over twice as much of a difference as you're measuring. Just a note this isn't specifically channel imbalance, but just if you can hear a .5db difference in volume in general.
Interesting, so 0.2db imbalance is acceptable for state of art DAC?

The test you provided is sudden change of dB for both channels, not one channel imbalance, correct?

If you listen to a song with lots of artificial echos trails on the right channel and the right channel is 0.2db lower, will you notice?

Thanks!
 
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cursive

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Personally I think .2db is more than acceptable for SOTA DAC. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by artificial echo trails on the right channel, but I don't think the content of the song matters. .2db is a tiny variation in volume regardless. You should really do the blind test on that page I linked and see what your score is for .5db.

I mean when you sit down and listen to your speakers, do you get out a measuring tape each time and make sure your ears are exactly the same distance to each speaker? Does your amplifier have a .2db channel difference? What about the drivers in the speakers themselves, what is their tolerance for variation? Is one speaker closer to a wall than the other? It's easy to go down that never ending rabbit hole.

We all get stuck chasing the next little bit of performance, so we can all relate to your experience. I think if time and time again you liked the E30 better, and immediately thought it had better sparkles in the highs, and the Gustard wasn't sounding as good, then you should just stick with the E30. Be happy you can save some money, and enjoy the music. :D
 

lizhuoyin

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Here you go. Seventeen hours outside. And measured cold. Green one at the top is E30, in suspend mode prior, measured right after wake up, filter 1. Not that clean looking.

The bottom two lines are X16. Filter 1. Measured after outside for 17 hours. Much cleaner on first power on. But, slope down and Left and Right channel NOT same level, even given same signal from REW and X16 is at 0db.

View attachment 115311
In Amir's X16 review, there is a difference around 0.18dB from XLR output at 0dB given 1khz.
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #275
Personally I think .2db is more than acceptable for SOTA DAC. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by artificial echo trails on the right channel, but I don't think the content of the song matters. .2db is a tiny variation in volume regardless. You should really do the blind test on that page I linked and see what your score is for .5db.

I mean when you sit down and listen to your speakers, do you get out a measuring tape each time and make sure your ears are exactly the same distance to each speaker? Does your amplifier have a .2db channel difference? What about the drivers in the speakers themselves, what is their tolerance for variation? Is one speaker closer to a wall than the other? It's easy to go down that never ending rabbit hole.

We all get stuck chasing the next little bit of performance, so we can all relate to your experience. I think if time and time again you liked the E30 better, and immediately thought it had better sparkles in the highs, and the Gustard wasn't sounding as good, then you should just stick with the E30. Be happy you can save some money, and enjoy the music. :D
Although not one channel imbalance test, I seems to be able to detect 0.5db fine with $50 headphones via my phone:

Screenshot_20210227-201148_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #276
Are you using XLR or SE from X16? Also are you using mic/REW and testing DAC in-directly? What if the imbalance was introduced in later parts of the audio chain?
Chain is REW one channel sweep from laptop -> USB in to DAC -> DAC RCA out to the XLR input of Scarlett Solo -> Solo USB back to laptop.

Both E30 and X16 using RCA out. I checked one channel at a time.

Did same way to E30 4 times, no imbalance. Did 8 different times for x16, always imbalance.
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #277
I turned down level of REW a little to typical listening db. Test again after 2 hours of powered on. E30 (filter 1) and X16(filter 2).

E30 (top line) no channels imbalance. X16 continue to have ~0.2db imbalance.
e30_vs_x16_filter_2_2HR.PNG
 
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lizhuoyin

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I turned down level of REW a little to typical listening db. Test again after 2 hours of on between E30 (filter 1) and X16(filter 2).

E30 (top line) no channels imbalance. X16 continue to have ~0.2db imbalance.
View attachment 115384
Strange. X16 max rca output at 3.3Vrms and E30 @2.145. how come X16 level is lower at 0dB. Also X16 spec says +-0.08dB level. I guess 0.2dB is near borderline.
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #279
Strange. X16 max rca output at 3.3Vrms and E30 @2.145. how come X16 level is lower at 0dB. Also X16 spec says +-0.08dB level. I guess 0.2dB is near borderline.
Gustard said they limited new retail device RCA output to 2V.
 
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