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DAC burn-in/break-in? My Gustard X16 measurements

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Pdxwayne

Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #281
Make sure you are using the same input channel at solo for testing X16's outputs.
Solo, always the left one (XLR in). For both E30 and X16, I use RCA to XLR cable to connect RCA output to Solo left XLR in.

Here is the cable:
20210227_205701.jpg
 
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Pdxwayne

Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #285
If not, the l/r attenuation circuit for rca may not have matching resistors.
Unfortunately. Same issue. Right is lower by ~0.2db.

Top two lines are X16 XLR outputs. Using Filter 2. It was powered on from cold 3 hours.

e30_vs_x16_filter_2_3HR_XLR.PNG
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #288
One thing you need to watch out is that X16's xlr output may be too hot for your Solo's xlr/mic input. It's rated +9dBu which is around 2.18vRMS.
Thanks. Fortunately earlier I already set REW output at -20db before capture from XLR. My first few RCA captures were over 100db. These XLR are captured at ~92db.
 

Blumlein 88

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I'd prefer not to have .2 db channel imbalance. I doubt you can tell it blind with mono music though you just might. Will you tell it blind with stereo music.....no way I think.

I don't remember all your systems. Depending upon what you are feeding you can likely correct the imbalance at the amp. Further tons of gear for years using carbon pot volume controls never was better balanced than that and no one commented upon it. You could always ask Gustard to fix it or swap units with you. Amir's review unit was well matched.
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #290
I'd prefer not to have .2 db channel imbalance. I doubt you can tell it blind with mono music though you just might. Will you tell it blind with stereo music.....no way I think.

I don't remember all your systems. Depending upon what you are feeding you can likely correct the imbalance at the amp. Further tons of gear for years using carbon pot volume controls never was better balanced than that and no one commented upon it. You could always ask Gustard to fix it or swap units with you. Amir's review unit was well matched.
Yeah, I just passed online blind test for mono 0.5db difference, using my $50 headphones via my phone.

I wonder how I would do for stereo. Also, I wonder at what freq that we are most sensitive to imbalance.

Could that explain why I sense E30 highs were better as soon as I switch to x16? I think the song I like have lots of artificial echos on the right channel. I have been listening with E30 with the same stereo system for two weeks. E30 been measured and there is no imbalance.

I connect my DAC directly to amp. Amp is Parasound A21.

My speakers are Paradigm Persona B.

Thanks!
 
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cursive

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Yeah, I just passed online blind test for mono 0.5db difference.

I wonder how I would do for stereo.

Could that explain why I sense E30 highs were better as soon as I switch to x16? I think the song I like have lots of artificial echos on the right channel. I have been listening with E30 with the same stereo system for two weeks. E30 been measured and there is no imbalance.

I connect my DAC directly to amp. Amp is Parasound A21.

My speakers are Paradigm Persona B.

Thanks!
You did really good on the .5db test, definitely better than I did! At the top of that page they have a .2db and .1db test as well. Of course you can click back and forth and rapidly A B test them that makes it easier, it would be much more difficult with stereo music. Also if you're using this dac for a speaker setup, I'd recommend testing it that way to see if you hear the imbalance vs using headphones.

Again, I really feel like if the e30 has better highs for you, has NO channel imbalance, and is cheaper, it seems like a win win situation for your setup. Topping has proved to be amazing performance at it's price and above.

Never heard them but the Persona B is such a beautiful looking speaker, hope you're enjoying them.
Also you keep referencing a specific song, mind telling us what song so we know what you're referring to about artificial echos on the right?
 

voodooless

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I think if you look at all DAC reviews, a mismatch of .1 or .2 dB is quite normal. Even the original X16 shows a bit more than .1 dB difference.

As for your difference measured over all frequencies: you’ve just measured the passband ripple of the digital filter. If you select a different one, it’s gone. Well, not gone.. just smaller ;) That is not a defect, just a property of the specific filter.

Btw? How do you know your headphones are exactly matched? I bet they have a much greater imbalance than the DAC. Never mind speakers. The reason you can still pick out the difference: for one you seem to be good at it, and secondly, you’re probably very used to these headphones. Your mind wil compensate.
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #293
You did really good on the .5db test, definitely better than I did! At the top of that page they have a .2db and .1db test as well. Of course you can click back and forth and rapidly A B test them that makes it easier, it would be much more difficult with stereo music. Also if you're using this dac for a speaker setup, I'd recommend testing it that way to see if you hear the imbalance vs using headphones.

Again, I really feel like if the e30 has better highs for you, has NO channel imbalance, and is cheaper, it seems like a win win situation for your setup. Topping has proved to be amazing performance at it's price and above.

Never heard them but the Persona B is such a beautiful looking speaker, hope you're enjoying them.
Also you keep referencing a specific song, mind telling us what song so we know what you're referring to about artificial echos on the right?
Yes, the second song for this one:
https://tidal.com/track/158086087
"They told us it was hard.... "

I enjoy it with E30 for 2 weeks. It helps me relax actually.....But right after I switched to x16, I commented in x16 thread that x16 is missing the E30's sparkles.

The Persona B has a reputation to be very "revealing".
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #294
I think if you look at all DAC reviews, a mismatch of .1 or .2 dB is quite normal. Even the original X16 shows a bit more than .1 dB difference.

As for your difference measured over all frequencies: you’ve just measured the passband ripple of the digital filter. If you select a different one, it’s gone. Well, not gone.. just smaller ;) That is not a defect, just a property of the specific filter.

Btw? How do you know your headphones are exactly matched? I bet they have a much greater imbalance than the DAC. Never mind speakers. The reason you can still pick out the difference: for one you seem to be good at it, and secondly, you’re probably very used to these headphones. Your mind wil compensate.
Correct! It is just that E30 is balance and I have been listening to it for two weeks with same stereo system before I swapped out the DAC to x16. Once I am used to E30, and everything else stays the same, suddenly one device causes an imbalance, I sensed it. I think the fact that I have Paradigm Persona B as speakers also helps.
 
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Frio

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Inaudible difference. You need a lot of luck through the signal path to get two dac chips act exactly the same. The gustard is balanced with two ess, the e30 ha only one dac chip.

Now everything gets subverted for the sake of proofing himself right. Measure stuff, nitpick, not enough, rinse and repeat.
 
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Pdxwayne

Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #296
Inaudible difference. You need a lot of luck through the signal path to get two dac chips act exactly the same. The gustard is balanced with two ess, the e30 ha only one dac chip.

Now everything gets subverted for the sake of proofing himself right. Measure stuff, nitpick, not enough, rinse and repeat.
I was using x16 filter 3. There is another 0.1db drop at 10khz as compared to E30 filter 1.

Would a combined 0.3db drop audible around 10Khz? Considering I am using Paradigm Persona B as speakers?
 

Frio

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No and the sheer redundance and stubbornness to proof some sparkles makes here everything you measure so pointless. We get it, you are much to invested now to admit you just heard something that isn't there.
 
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Pdxwayne

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Thread Starter #298
No and the sheer redundance and stubbornness to proof some sparkles makes here everything you measure so pointless. We get it, you are much to invested now to admit you just heard something that isn't there.
I thought some people here claim they could hear 0.3db difference.

Anyway, I know I can at least pass 0.5db blind tests with a $50 headphones. Will be interesting to see if I could do the same or even lower with my speakers setup.

How about you? How low can you go? How well do you do with 0.5db?
https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=0.5
 
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