Bowers & Wilkins 607 S2 Anniversary Edition Review

[Marty Groves]

Hi all. Was lurking here as I bought the 607s two weeks ago because of online hype. What a disaster! I don't know what I was expecting - they were my first speakers bought in the last 25 years (I am old). Thin sounding and way too much top end. Tried everything to accommodate them. Found this thread, followed the advice and bought a pair of Elac Debut Reference DBR62s. Night and day! Problem solved. 607s returned.
A big thank you to all contributors.

 

[richard12511]

Thank you for clarifying that you do not exactly know how the headphone target curves were determined. I fully respect your naïve guess.

This is the loudspeaker forum section. He was clearly talking about loudspeakers.

 

[skyfly]

This is the loudspeaker forum section. He was clearly talking about loudspeakers.

I was talking about loudspeakers, too.

I mentioned headphone target curve to talk about blindly seeking flat curve from a loudspeaker by one specific type of measurement. That is not even done in what is called "pro audio" world.

It is fine not to fully know how the headphone target curves were determined - I want to add that the harman curve is not the only one, and that it is not the first one in the world , either. -. However, I wanted to point out that it is not good to pretend to know how the headphone target curves were determined.

One important spirit of ARS forum, as I understand, is not to pretend to know something.

P.S.: You are not defending him by claiming that he knew how the headphone target curves were determined. You are trying to defend him by falsely attacking me as somebody talking about headphone in the loudspeaker forum. Anyway, your post confirms that I was right in pointing out that he did not know how the headphone target curves were determined. Thank you very much.

 

[Koeitje]

Hi all. Was lurking here as I bought the 607s two weeks ago because of online hype. What a disaster! I don't know what I was expecting - they were my first speakers bought in the last 25 years (I am old). Thin sounding and way too much top end. Tried everything to accommodate them. Found this thread, followed the advice and bought a pair of Elac Debut Reference DBR62s. Night and day! Problem solved. 607s returned.
A big thank you to all contributors.

You even saved some money there. win-win.

 

[killdozzer]

Wow. This is pretty bad. I've noticed many objectivists will quietly go around B&W speakers, usually saying it's OK and it had some good models, but nothing more. They will politely recommend B&W to people who perhaps like a hot tweeter.

But I must say I didn't expect an anniversary model to do THIS bad. There's a joke about B&W that says by the time you have money for their speakers, you'll need the extra highs.

Some fans were saying that the new proprietary material sorted the notorious harshness, I'd say these measurements disprove that.

 

[skyfly]

I am not sure whether I will need extra highs when I become older. I would not be comparing what I hear and what I heard 20 years ago. I would be comparing the sounds from the speaker and the sound from the natural sound sources - human being talking, music concert, etc. with the same aged ears.

I guess some old age highly-payed sound engineers in broadcast/recording/editing/mastering industry have some damaged hearing in high, but they still get the tonality balanced - otherwise, they would be fired -.

P.S.: I don't know how good or how bad my parents' hearings are in high. Anyway, the do not look for bright sounding speakers or bright sounding headphones.

 

[thewas]

However, I wanted to point out that it is not good to pretend to know how the headphone target curves were determined.

One important spirit of ARS forum, as I understand, is not to pretend to know something.

What weird stuff are you talking about? Should people lie that they don't know something if they do?

Anyway, your post confirms that I was right in pointing out that he did not know how the headphone target curves were determined.

How exactly does that prove it? Show exactly where you asked me about "how the headphone target curves were determined" and I didn't give an answer or gave a wrong one!

 

[killdozzer]

I'm not sure I would go that far... the flaws (and they are many) of this speaker should be clearly audible.
So there's only two possibilities:

1. You like them - either because you want "sizzle and bang" without EQ, or because you are more interested in brand and aesthetics.
2. You hated them already - in which case you likely already returned them after an audition.

In either case, a bad review shouldn't matter to you all that much. Now if you said "it's a sad day for B&W"... that would be true - it's just that they clearly intended much of what's wrong here objectively. Many of their other speakers exhibit similar characteristics.

Your point is fair in part, but one could easily defend earlier post. If they are, as the review says, "showroom tuned" and an everyday music lover falls for them because of this, he might notice, back at his listening room that they are actually not as good as they appeared to be in the showroom and that they're actually fatiguing.

At this point you can think well I'll sort them, but after this review you might find out that EQing these surpasses your knowledge and this could be disappointing. Even returning a product is not always a hassle free endeavor. And this could indeed be truly disappointing.

Your comment, however, covers clear cases.

 

[killdozzer]

Hi all. Was lurking here as I bought the 607s two weeks ago because of online hype. What a disaster! I don't know what I was expecting - they were my first speakers bought in the last 25 years (I am old). Thin sounding and way too much top end. Tried everything to accommodate them. Found this thread, followed the advice and bought a pair of Elac Debut Reference DBR62s. Night and day! Problem solved. 607s returned.
A big thank you to all contributors.

This is nice to see. Someone who got some actual use of the forum and testing, has solved his situation and comes back with feedback. Nice!

 

[killdozzer]

P.S.: I don't know how good or how bad my parents' hearings are in high.

Why don't you simply ask them or are you grounded again and can't get out of your room?

Could I politely ask you to sort your B&W grudge in some other way that wouldn't include snarky comments on forums?

If not, here's a member asking about civility standards on ASR forums:

Has civility on ASR declined recently?

I have noticed an increase in combative and insulting posts on ASR over the last couple of months--mostly, but not always, by new members. The posters definitely have not seemed to heed the message at the top of every forum page to Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Your insight would be invaluable. You can start with explaining why would some measures prompt you to insult or taunt any living person here?

I believe your entire engagement could be summed with: "I don't subscribe to a specific curve nor do I subscribe to the opinion that it is more desirable", and there would be no need for snarky comments.

I don't subscribe to the accepted opinion that acoustical instruments are the blueprint for setting up the sound and nothing happened to me because of that opinion in little over a year I've been a member. No problem there.

 

[skyfly]

Why don't you simply ask them or are you grounded again and can't get out of your room?

Could I politely ask you to sort your B&W grudge in some other way that wouldn't include snarky comments on forums?

If not, here's a member asking about civility standards on ASR forums:

Has civility on ASR declined recently?

I have noticed an increase in combative and insulting posts on ASR over the last couple of months--mostly, but not always, by new members. The posters definitely have not seemed to heed the message at the top of every forum page to Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Your insight would be invaluable. You can start with explaining why would some measures prompt you to insult or taunt any living person here?

I believe your entire engagement could be summed with: "I don't subscribe to a specific curve nor do I subscribe to the opinion that it is more desirable", and there would be no need for snarky comments.

I don't subscribe to the accepted opinion that acoustical instruments are the blueprint for setting up the sound and nothing happened to me because of that opinion in little over a year I've been a member. No problem there.

I think you did not read my posts. "your B&W grudge"? I didn't bash B&W.

"snarky comments" Expressing such judgement is not a civilized behavior. I do not know what triggered you to behave like this, but I naively guess that some people's comments undermined your belief on audio science or feeling on an audio brand. A civilized person tolerates different views.

 

[skyfly]

I am not sure whether I will need extra highs when I become older. I would not be comparing what I hear and what I heard 20 years ago. I would be comparing the sounds from the speaker and the sound from the natural sound sources - human being talking, music concert, etc. with the same aged ears.

I guess some old age highly-payed sound engineers in broadcast/recording/editing/mastering industry have some damaged hearing in high, but they still get the tonality balanced - otherwise, they would be fired -.

P.S.: I don't know how good or how bad my parents' hearings are in high. Anyway, the do not look for bright sounding speakers or bright sounding headphones.

P.S. P.S.: Their 15-year-old integrated amp has tone controls. They do not use the tone controls to boost high. They are not audiophiles, and thus are not the audiophiles who rejects tone controls for "purity," either.

 

[richard12511]

I was talking about loudspeakers, too.

I mentioned headphone target curve to talk about blindly seeking flat curve from a loudspeaker by one specific type of measurement. That is not even done in what is called "pro audio" world.

It is fine not to fully know how the headphone target curves were determined - I want to add that the harman curve is not the only one, and that it is not the first one in the world , either. -. However, I wanted to point out that it is not good to pretend to know how the headphone target curves were determined.

One important spirit of ARS forum, as I understand, is not to pretend to know something.

P.S.: You are not defending him by claiming that he knew how the headphone target curves were determined. You are trying to defend him by falsely attacking me as somebody talking about headphone in the loudspeaker forum. Anyway, your post confirms that I was right in pointing out that he did not know how the headphone target curves were determined. Thank you very much.

My post wasn't meant as a personal attack. Apologies if it seemed like that was the case. Based on your posts, it made me think you may not fully understand the Harman anechoic loudspeaker target, but that was just a guess. Maybe you do. Both @thewas and I are very aware how both the Harman headphone and Harman loudspeaker "targets" came about. Dr. Toole and Dr. Olive are actually members here.

 

[adamjohari]

I swapped my B&W 607 S2 Anniversary speakers for the Kef LS50 50th Anniversary Model and the improvement is so vast. Thanks ASR for keeping it real when some reviewers were praising the B&W like it was sliced bread.

 

[Picky]

b&w get smacked for some reason on here, u have to partner them to get the right sounds, the 6 & 7 series can sound really beautiful, energetic and engaging, not flat and boring, its just what u want to hear yourself, as always, the tweeters are alu so that always causes some issues imo but if u swap the speaker in and out with a relaxing speaker at times u get best of both worlds

oh and they cost 350 so what an amazing speaker for that price!! i mean u cant go wrong with that

u have to compare like to like, the revel m16 costs at least 2x the price and a lot of people will still prefer the 607 sound

 

[TrevC]

I now own the 706 S2 and they wow everyone that listens to them. Not cheap at £1100 but you get what you pay for.

 

[PacketofCrisps]

The latest generation of B&W speakers all seem to have the familiar 5-dB or so rise centered around 10KHz. I borrowed a pair of the 600 series' big brothers, the 706 S2. According to measurements I've seen, they share the rising top end of the 607s. I listen to classical music, which means a lot of violins, which in turn means listening to a lot of strident recordings of violins. I am very sensitive to this kind of shrillness (it's my pet peeve), and to my ears, the 706s presented a very subtle, very realistic portrayal of violins.

The speakers are a bit recessed in the brightness region, below 10KHz, but very airy and feathery around 10KHz and above. This is the sound I hear in the concert hall: a delightful, breathy, velvety sheen that hovers above the fundamental sounds. I didn't find the 706s to be shrill or strident on the music I love most. In reality, they presented a very realistic representation of real instruments. And they may be in my future!

I've been slowly reading through this thread and it's been a fascinating read, loving the different arguments put forward, personally I'm a fan of the B&W sound, my feelings largely echo Chaconne's post above, it's not a perfect speaker by any means, but I find with some instruments it has a eerily real live sound to them, particularly violins, cello, Clarinet, and saxophones are very life like, tonality is spot on with them.

I think just looking at the FR response of a speaker is a very poor indicator as to how it will sound, and more importantly sound in your room, in-room response is key, I have my 606's in a quite a dampened room, fully carpeted, large sofa and various plush furnishings, to my ears the 606's compliment that, I'm not sure they would work well in a modern sparse lounge with wood flooring and clean walls.

I'm not saying FR charts are completely useless, I just think it's more important to use your ears first, and then if you hear any issues see if what you're hearing corelates in anyway to the FR chart and maybe try do an in-room FR reading if your looking to correct or improve, but first and foremost try and choose the right speaker for your room by auditioning at home is possible.

 

[Purité Audio]

Really the other way around, look at the measurements then choose some possibles,
Keith

 

[Ageve]

u have to compare like to like, the revel m16 costs at least 2x the price and a lot of people will still prefer the 607 sound

I have compared M16 to the older 685 S2. They measure quite similar to the 607, but the treble is not as bright.

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: Bowers & Wilkins 685 S2 Loudspeakers

www.soundstagenetwork.com

Anyway, the M16 is far superior. I actually ended up checking my connections twice since the 685 S2 sounded out of phase in comparison. It’s probably caused by the 6dB/octave crossover.

 

[beagleman]

I've been slowly reading through this thread and it's been a fascinating read, loving the different arguments put forward, personally I'm a fan of the B&W sound, my feelings largely echo Chaconne's post above, it's not a perfect speaker by any means, but I find with some instruments it has a eerily real live sound to them, particularly violins, cello, Clarinet, and saxophones are very life like, tonality is spot on with them.

I think just looking at the FR response of a speaker is a very poor indicator as to how it will sound, and more importantly sound in your room, in-room response is key, I have my 606's in a quite a dampened room, fully carpeted, large sofa and various plush furnishings, to my ears the 606's compliment that, I'm not sure they would work well in a modern sparse lounge with wood flooring and clean walls.

I'm not saying FR charts are completely useless, I just think it's more important to use your ears first, and then if you hear any issues see if what you're hearing corelates in anyway to the FR chart and maybe try do an in-room FR reading if your looking to correct or improve, but first and foremost try and choose the right speaker for your room by auditioning at home is possible.

I had one speaker that had a VERY flat response. I compared ALL my other speakers with it.

One newish pair I got sounded "Better", but I know they can not be even "More flat", but probably differ in some key way, but it is hard to tell what is better about the new speaker. (Despite it probably NOT measuring as flat)

I have tried Pink Noise, Test tones and my equalizers, but can not determine the exact difference.