Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!

[-Matt-]

For reference, as I recall on the A6A the bass was OK with the processing of L/Rs disabled, there was an independent setting to allow direction of all bass to the fronts, and there was no setting for a "loudness-like" correction that would enhance bass at low volumes (perhaps it was hardwired in the electronic volume control?).

Yes, very likely the response that you thought was flat was actually with some "boosting tricks" already hardwired into the Yamaha. They do claim stuff like tuned by ear for more musicality (BS)!

It is only really fair to compare between the Yamaha and Denon AVRs if they have been tuned to the same target curves.

To question the power capability of an amp based on your preference for a steeper house curve (when tools are offered for you to adjust this) seems a bit unreasonable.

Comments on ease of use of the setup procedure are likely far more justified.

 

[lc6]

I think this is as misapprehension.

"Factory-tuned flat" frequency response doesn't make much sense. The response changes depending on which room you put it in, where the speakers are positioned, etc. This is the point of the measurement based corrections - to get a flat in-room response. (Or to offset from that flat response based on a house curve).

I respectfully disagree about some aspects of this; see my post in the other thread.

Much better to allow Audyssey to do its thing, especially at low frequencies.

Having said that, many people prefer to disable Audyssey for higher frequencies (eg above 500Hz). This can be done in the app.

My L/R sound is just fine without any corrections when powered by a different amp, so I see no reason to change the FR to some "house curve" or "flat curve" based on measurements made with an uncalibrated cheap mic on a flimsy cardboard stand (LOL).

When you compare your memory of the Yamaha amp and this one were the room, speaker positions and listening position the same?

Exactly the same setup, including room, speakers, cables and listening location. The only change is the AVR, located in exactly in the same spot.

By the way, your recollection about the visibility of the on screen display whilst using TV apps must be mistaken. It is a feature of the TV. If the TV is displaying its internal app as the source (eg Netflix) then it is impossible for the on screen display from the amp to also be shown. (Yes, it is quite annoying but definitely not different for Denon vs Yamaha).

I believe I figured it last night. The confusion stemmed from the fact that the HDMI eARC input to which the AVR is connected is labeled "BD", but there also is another virtual source on the TV menu labeled "Home Theater" which is the name I selected for the AVR based on its setup recommendation (that source only allows for the selection of AVR inputs). So the trick is to select the "BD" source on the TV and then use the AVR control to select an input other than BD and enter its AVR settings.

BTW, I noticed that when entering Settings, the sound played gets temporarily interrupted. I could understand if that was happening when a setting change was being applied but not when just popping up a screen. Not sure whether this AVR is equipped with a GPP cores to handle the UI, networking, etc., but it might use the ADI DSP (busy processing signals) for those functions as well.

Also, the Amazon Music HD app running on a Fire Stick HD directly connected to the AVR via HDMI claims that the device capability is 16 bits / 192 kHz, whereas from the French presentation posted on this thread, the TI DACs this AVR employs are 32-bit, so the capability presented to the Stick should be at least 24 bits / 192 kHz to fully enjoy hi-res material.

 

[lc6]

Yes, very likely the response that you thought was flat was actually with some "boosting tricks" already hardwired into the Yamaha. They do claim stuff like tuned by ear for more musicality (BS)!

It is only really fair to compare between the Yamaha and Denon AVRs if they have been tuned to the same target curves.

To question the power capability of an amp based on your preference for a steeper house curve (when tools are offered for you to adjust this) seems a bit unreasonable.

Comments on ease of use of the setup procedure are likely far more justified.

On the other hand, any kinds of "boosting tricks" would likely come up in FR measurements showing unevenness at low and full power and dynamic range. I do not recall seeing any such findings, but may have missed them.

 

[-Matt-]

My L/R sound is just fine without any corrections when powered by a different amp, so I see no reason to change the FR to some "house curve" or "flat curve" based on measurements made with an uncalibrated cheap mic on a flimsy cardboard stand (LOL).

My point was that the other amp was probably already applying a house curve without your knowledge. This was the response that you enjoyed.

Now you experience a flat response from your speakers and dislike it.

Not a failing of the new amp - it can easily be fixed - simply adjust the new amp to change its house curve to one that you like.


Pure direct, L/R bypass etc is mostly audiophile mythology. To get the best in-room response it is better to use the EQ effectively.

 

[peng]

I can give it a try, but my understanding is that for the Dynamic EQ and other Bass processing to be accessible in the settings, Audyssey has to be enabled on the L/Rs, which means all its "measurement-based corrections" would be applied (that would only distort the factory-tuned flat FR of my mains, which I like very much). I guess I could attempt to then manually override Audyssey corrections, but that gets quite cumbersome.
For reference, as I recall on the A6A the bass was OK with the processing of L/Rs disabled, there was an independent setting to allow direction of all bass to the fronts, and there was no setting for a "loudness-like" correction that would enhance bass at low volumes (perhaps it was hardwired in the electronic volume control?).
Anyway, thank you again for the additional recommendations.

Yamaha's DEQ equivalent seems to be YPAO volume:

YPAO™ Volume Ensures Quality Audio at All Volumes - Yamaha Music - Blog

Yamaha YPAO™ Volume allows you to hear balanced low, mid and high frequencies clearly, even at low volumes. This article explains how it works.

hub.yamaha.com

 

[lc6]

Yamaha's DEQ equivalent seems to be YPAO volume:

YPAO™ Volume Ensures Quality Audio at All Volumes - Yamaha Music - Blog

Yamaha YPAO™ Volume allows you to hear balanced low, mid and high frequencies clearly, even at low volumes. This article explains how it works.

hub.yamaha.com

Thanks; so my recollection from 6+ months ago was wrong. The question is, could this "YPAO Volume" on the A6A be enabled even in the mode where YPAO-measured FR corrections were not applied for the front L/Rs? Probably yes, because unlike in the 3800H's "L/R Bypass" mode, YPAO supports a "YPAO:Front" mode which "adjusts each speaker to achieve the same characteristics as the front speakers." That implies that YPAO would leave the front L/R FR intact, adjust all other speakers to sound like them, and still allow YPAO Volume on the fronts L/R.

 

[Masza]

I recall from Denon 3300 that Dynamic EQ works even with L/R bypass. I would at least try if it does.

 

[Chromatischism]

We have confirmation that DLBC will be available. Even if it costs $500, making the total $700, that means the X3800H gets you DLBC for up to 4 subs for $2400. That may seem expensive but it's actually an unprecedented bargain!

I thought $500 was all-in? If not that's disappointing.

 

[ryanosaur]

I thought $500 was all-in? If not that's disappointing.

Bass Control Module will likely, sadly, always be an add on product.
It would be better if SU just put the basic Dirac License into the cost of the product, but you would still be paying for it.

I'm really curious to know how many users will add Dirac? How many will simply stick with Audyssey (with or without the App)?

 

[Sancus]

I thought $500 was all-in? If not that's disappointing.

I'm honestly not sure. Offhand, all the DLBC upgradeable products I know of came with full-range Dirac, and then added (multi-sub, single is $350) DLBC on top of that for $500. If the baseline Denons don't come with a Dirac license at all, I assume it will thus be more than $500.

Could totally be wrong though, and certainly it would be appreciated if the cost is lower.

 

[DrStranger]

Bass Control Module will likely, sadly, always be an add on product.
It would be better if SU just put the basic Dirac License into the cost of the product, but you would still be paying for it.

I'm really curious to know how many users will add Dirac? How many will simply stick with Audyssey (with or without the App)?

I agree, this was a marketing "tick in the box" for them.

 

[Chromatischism]

I can give it a try, but my understanding is that for the Dynamic EQ and other Bass processing to be accessible in the settings, Audyssey has to be enabled on the L/Rs, which means all its "measurement-based corrections" would be applied (that would only distort the factory-tuned flat FR of my mains, which I like very much).

Remind me again which speakers you have?

My speakers are best with Audyssey fixing the bass issues, but the default curve isn't great, so I don't like what it does to the rest of the range. The app is the way to go in order to get more control over the sound.

 

[Chromatischism]

I'm honestly not sure. Offhand, all the DLBC upgradeable products I know of came with full-range Dirac, and then added (multi-sub, single is $350) DLBC on top of that for $500. If the baseline Denons don't come with a Dirac license at all, I assume it will thus be more than $500.

This is misleading. If you go to the Dirac website, they list the cost of the different software versions. Dirac Live Bass Control is $499. It is NOT labeled as an add-on.

 

[Sancus]

This is misleading. If you go to the Dirac website, they list the cost of the different software versions. Dirac Live Bass Control is $499. It is NOT labeled as an add-on.

Well I don't know what you want to make things not misleading. Dirac without bass control has a license fee. It's not free. There is also a license fee to upgrade Dirac (limited range) to Dirac full range, it's $99, for those products with limited Dirac.

If Dirac allows products that have NO Dirac support to buy Dirac/w bass control for $500, then that would be discounted, since right now they get $500 PLUS the license fees the manufacturer paid to include Dirac in the first place. The Dirac included on Arcams and the HTP-1 etc already cost you money before you paid for the DLBC license.

They may allow people who buy the $200 Dirac package to later upgrade to full bass control for $300, I don't know.

 

[peng]

Thanks; so my recollection from 6+ months ago was wrong. The question is, could this "YPAO Volume" on the A6A be enabled even in the mode where YPAO-measured FR corrections were not applied for the front L/Rs? Probably yes, because unlike in the 3800H's "L/R Bypass" mode, YPAO supports a "YPAO:Front" mode which "adjusts each speaker to achieve the same characteristics as the front speakers." That implies that YPAO would leave the front L/R FR intact, adjust all other speakers to sound like them, and still allow YPAO Volume on the fronts L/R.

I don't know about the A6A and your x3800h, but I can tell you my x4400h does work with DEQ on when FL/FR bypass is used. So as long as Audyssey is "On", I can select DEQ on, again, even in FL/FR bypass mode.

 

[ryanosaur]

Word I saw is $199 US for the license, then the DLBC for single or multi-sub would be additional, as it is on all other product that come loaded with DL out of the box.

edit:
Further word was Spring 2023 for DL activation by SU teams. DLBC sometime after that in 2023.

 

[ReciprocalSpace]

Anyone here if the Marantz AV10 release date is around the same time as the Denon A1H? Also find it strange I can't find any photos of the rear of the AV10 except by pausing the video on their website.

 

[dlaloum]

This unit has fans below the heatsinks, obviously an external fan shouldn't hurt, but I'd like to see some thermal measurements before/after.

My previous AVR

We have confirmation that DLBC will be available. Even if it costs $500, making the total $700, that means the X3800H gets you DLBC for up to 4 subs for $2400. That may seem expensive but it's actually an unprecedented bargain!

Perhaps even more interesting, allegedly the A1H will have access to Dirac's new spatial room correction. That would make it the first product to attain that capability.

I'm glad Sound United is paying attention, they've upended the competition with this move.

Yes - apparently DLBC will not go away - instead the range will look like

Dirac Live (limited range)
Dirac Live (full range)
Spatial Room Correction (limited range) - AKA DLBC
Spatial Room Correction (full range) - AKA SRC

And from the comments - it appears that full SRC may be limited to flagship models, which is sad, as the required processing power exists in the X3800

 

[Sancus]

And from the comments - it appears that full SRC may be limited to flagship models, which is sad, as the required processing power exists in the X3800

I really have only one question about spatial room correction: Can it fix SBIR?(for some value of fix) If the answer is yes, then it's worth the extra money for the A1H just by itself and it's not even close. If not, then meh.

 

[dlaloum]

I thought $500 was all-in? If not that's disappointing.

Based on current pricing for the Arcam AVR's with "optional Dirac" - it's more like US$800 for "all-in"

And the comments about SRC being flagship only, implies a substantially higher price...?