Bi-amp front speakers with receiver (internal) and external integrated amp?

[Audiofire]

But the biamping claims have been a constant "myth" that swirls around this hobby no matter the forum...

 

[Doodski]

Mainly, in this instance, that what the OP is doing is passive biamping that for nearly anyone who would try it with their new AVR and speakers (seeing double binding posts and removable bridge) has no measurable or (when doing true blind A/B testing) audible advantage.

Yes, that method that you describe is not beneficial. My understanding is he is using separate amps for both the top end and bottom end sections of the speakers.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

View attachment 357410

I'm waiting for my party members to sign on to Baldurs Gate 3...I have time to kill.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Yes, that method that you describe is not beneficial. My understanding is he is using separate amps for both the top end and bottom end sections of the speakers.

Which I added to the quoted post. If his amp allows individual control of the gain/volume output per channel, of course he would hear a difference if he is changing the balance between lows vs. mids/high output. But again, using EQ software or a tone slider/adjustment can also accomplish similar.

 

[Doodski]

I'm waiting for my party members to sign on to Baldurs Gate 3...I have time to kill.

Cool.. The graphics appear to be gorgeous. I Googled the images and I like it. Is it all 3rd person or a hybrid including some first person battle action?

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Cool.. The graphics appear to be gorgeous. I Googled the images and I like it. Is it all 3rd person or a hybrid including some first person battle action?

All 3rd person. Not to get off topic but it is the first turn-based RPG I've ever liked/wanted to play. Definitely time consuming. Though don't worry everyone, it has not cut into my building time/output for amps

 

[Doodski]

Which I added to the quoted post. If his amp allows individual control of the gain/volume output per channel, of course he would hear a difference if he is changing the balance between lows vs. mids/high output. But again, using EQ software or a tone slider/adjustment can also accomplish similar.

Yes, the level adjustments can be done both ways. The function of the amplifier circuit(s) whether using one amp or multiples changes because the reactance(s) presented back to the amplifier changes. So if there are separate amps for the top and bottom sections of the speakers there are theoretical benefits.

 

[Doodski]

All 3rd person. Not to get off topic but it is the first turn-based RPG I've ever liked/wanted to play. Definitely time consuming. Though don't worry everyone, it has not cut into my building time/output for amps

Trust me I do not think badly of you for being into a PC game. I have many PC FPS and sniper 3rd person games and have been a serious FPS gamer. I was once rated ~74 in the world for Unreal Tournament long ago for a couple of weeks.

 

[Chrispy]

How about amps of dissimilar gain ?

 

[Doodski]

How about amps of dissimilar gain ?

That works well. A smaller power amp on the high end (tweeter and or mid) is good because the actual amount of power going to the high end is way smaller than the woofers low end power requirement.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

That works well. A smaller power amp on the high end (tweeter and or mid) is good because the actual amount of power going to the high end is way smaller than the woofers low end power requirement.

Remember gain is not the same as power (wattage).

 

[Doodski]

Remember gain is not the same as power (wattage).

Yes, theoretically the different gain spec of each amp will create varying power levels from amp to amp as the total power output requirement varies but in the actual application of differing gain amps it does still work pretty good to use differing sizes of amps for active speaker amplification.

 

[hwest]

He doesn't need to be perfect or have absolute control over knowledge. He's having a good time and not bothering anybody like a bad troll. This is ASR and we are supposed to have fun too.

Right I'm just here to challenge the experts, I'm not claiming to be an expert. I did this when there was a discussion about the Marantz and Denon systems being great systems when I think they are flat and ordinary at best. We did go in quite a circle here but I see where I was wrong and where I was trying to prove that Bi-Amping gave me a result that I can hear with my own ears. Measurements are great to certain extent but when you know what to listen for it's better in my opinion. I'm happy with my AVM 90, some people are happy with their Denon's or Marantz system features.

 

[hwest]

Look at his posting history before bothering to respond further. From the start, nothing but nonsensical claims. And he apparently hasn't learned anything in the two plus years of having an account here.

You need to be challenged my friend, I'm sure you believe in the curve more than what your ears just based on being overly nerdy about it. I'm just here to challenge folks but also to learn. With that said I should never assume I have an Active Crossover setup just because I observed a great deal of improvement. I had an active setup in my car using Focal speakers and Audiocontrol Amps and did spend way too much time tuning the DSP with it's Parametric EQ capabilities it was a big time sucker to get it perfect.

 

[Doodski]

Right I'm just here to challenge the experts, I'm not claiming to be an expert. I did this when there was a discussion about the Marantz and Denon systems being great systems when I think they are flat and ordinary at best. We did go in quite a circle here but I see where I was wrong and where I was trying to prove that Bi-Amping gave me a result that I can hear with my own ears. Measurements are great to certain extent but when you know what to listen for it's better in my opinion. I'm happy with my AVM 90, some people are happy with their Denon's or Marantz system features.

ASR is meant to be a educational experience, a learning curve, a help center, a repository of knowledge, a test review website, technical resource and for fun too. As long as the newbies and learners respect the expert peeps everything works like well oiled machine. Listening pleasure is the root intention when purchasing gear and one should never forget that although knowing the principles and fundamentals of electronics subjects of which there are a bunch of them makes for some very interesting stuff. So make sure you treat the expert peeps kindly so you can access that wealth of knowledge. This is a one of a kind website. I'm not into surround sound receivers etc so I am not familiar with the new gear for that. As per measurements for me I use them and for speakers I use them but I listen before purchase. So I am onboard with you there. I like what you did with your B&Ws. It's interesting.

 

[hwest]

ASR is meant to be a educational experience, a learning curve, a help center, a repository of knowledge, a test review website, technical resource and for fun too. As long as the newbies and learners respect the expert peeps everything works like well oiled machine. Listening pleasure is the root intention when purchasing gear and one should never forget that although knowing the principles and fundamentals of electronics subjects of which there are a bunch of them makes for some very interesting stuff. So make sure you treat the expert peeps kindly so you can access that wealth of knowledge. This is a one of a kind website. I'm not into surround sound receivers etc so I am not familiar with the new gear for that. As per measurements for me I use them and for speakers I use them but I listen before purchase. So I am onboard with you there. I like what you did with your B&Ws. It's interesting.

I'm trying to figure out what my next upgrade will be, I'm considering a McIntosh AMP but I really like my Emotivas, I'm looking at the HifiRose 130 as a good streamer, I just got the AVM 90 about 6 months ago. Nervous about spending a bunch on an AMP from McIntosh and not getting a clear benefit over Emotivas which I really like. A little off topic here but that's where I'm at with my setup just so you know. I don't know if I would go up to the 802 B&W's but I have a buyer for my 804's top dollar. There are so many speakers I have heard good things about but not sure what I would move to.

 

[Doodski]

I'm considering a McIntosh AMP

It's a very personal purchase at this level and grade. My experience with McIntosh is as a electronic techy servicing the gear for a high end retailer that referred customers to me. It is like a Harley Davidson classic motorcycle in that it holds it's value, is often a nice black finish, has lotsa chrome and even has glass and very pretty illumination. It can have massive amounts of power as I am sure you are aware and is built very solid. I never saw a broken down McIntosh. I only saw well used, dusty, loved gear that required disassembly for a good dusting, clean and lubricate the controls and switches, replace dead lamps, clean the glass inside and out and reassemble to confirm proper operation. I provided a full 90 day warranty because the gear is that good. If you go that way you will do well with your investment.

 

[hwest]

I am not against having fun. But the biamping claims have been a constant "myth" that swirls around this hobby no matter the forum...much like audio cable snake oil. Being a science based forum it is a little more pertinent to check claims.

Mainly, in this instance, that what the OP is doing is passive biamping that for nearly anyone who would try it with their new AVR and speakers (seeing double binding posts and removable bridge) has no measurable or (when doing true blind A/B testing) audible advantage.

Now, in the OP's instance he seems to imply he has control over the gain or volume of the signal going to the mids/high binding posts and the low binding posts. If that is the case, it would make sense he might hear a difference as he can change the frequency response crudely (like a Treble/Bass slider).

That is my guess based on what he has said.

If you generalize and don't consider how you can act on the individual connections as a whole then it would seem like snake oil. I know what I hear and I have managed to clean up a few things in the sound, it's not an imaginary result it's a result that can be heard.

 

[Doodski]

it's not an imaginary result it's a result that can be heard.

I think your intention with this comment is regarding bi-amping improvements and or active crossover system improvements.<?> I mentioned in this thread a couple or so posts back that there are theoretical gains to be had. The actual results can be noticeable and I have experienced them myself in an active crossover system. It is not imperative that you have exactly matching amps for bi-amping or active crossover applications. The benefits can still be realized.

 

[Chrispy]

@hwest your various odd postings don't come to much at all. I just put you on "ignore".