AV123 / GR Research X-Voce Speaker Review

[moonlight rainbow dream]

Without the use of DSP, the <200hz frequency response of a speaker is almost completely pre-determined by the box tuning - the combination of woofer, enclosure size, and port size. You can change it a tiny bit with choice of stuffing/damping, but that's about it.

Now I'm very curious to find out how speakers with his corrected crossovers measure.

Here is an example where he is re-designing the crossover:

GR Research Klipsch RP-600M Upgrade Review (speaker)

This is a review of a Klipsch RP-600M which has been upgraded to a new crossover, binding posts and "No Rez" by GR Research. The kit costs US $244. OK, so there is nothing externally which is different. :) I can't open the unit to show the different bits but here is the back with new binding...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In cases where he is just duplicating the values of the original crossover using boutique parts, it is pure snake oil.. and he himself admits that the "improvements" do not show up in the measurements.

 

[Penelinfi]

 

[MattHooper]

Whew! Talk about a pile on!

 

[kma100]

Yeah. I think thread like this should be locked after the initial review, especially if the designer isn't interested/aware to provide an explanation or rebuttal. Otherwise this generates into herd-like behavior of "this speaker sucks". I don't have any GR Research products and don't plan to buy any, but this is a pile on with no real benefit.

 

[MattHooper]

Yeah. I think thread like this should be locked after the initial review, especially if the designer isn't interested/aware to provide an explanation or rebuttal. Otherwise this generates into herd-like behavior of "this speaker sucks". I don't have an GR Research products and don't plan to buy any, but this is a pile on with no real benefit.

I'm not fan of his in particular, but it seems like the review of an old speaker is being used to create a pissing circle on Danny.

 

[antcollinet]

the review of an old speaker

It might be old, but it seems he is still selling it. That warrants a certain amount of pushback.

 

[dfuller]

I'm not fan of his in particular, but it seems like the review of an old speaker is being used to create a pissing circle on Danny.

He's still selling it, and given his behavior towards Amir, he deserves it. Also, quoting myself:

I - wow. I can't believe anybody would design this and go "yeah, that sounds right". Even if you were just tuning by ear, That kind of peak and dip is going to sound seriously wrong, never mind everything else.

There is no way someone with such a "golden ear" that he can hear the difference between different types of wirewound resistors and capacitor dielectrics wouldn't notice such a glaring response error, nor the resonances the mesh is causing.

In other words, he's full of crap and he's taking people for a ride. I do not stand for this.

 

[amirm]

I think thread like this should be locked after the initial review, especially if the designer isn't interested/aware to provide an explanation or rebuttal.

The designer was consulted before the review was even published. Lest you feel sorry for him still, this is one of his last responses to me:

"You seem to be using some lay understanding of how speakers work. You certainly struggle to understand the measurements. 5 hours to get useful information? Who has time for that?

Don't waste any more of my time."

Followed by:

"Oh yeah, one more thing. It was really funny that the customer didn't trust sending the speaker to me, but then you are still coming to me for help with them.

That did make me laugh...."

As to locking threads, that is of last resort as far as forum management. People should be free to comment even if they come in late into such a review/discussion.

 

[Futility]

As to locking threads, that is of last resort as far as forum management. People should be free to comment even if they come in late into such a review/discussion.

Perhaps, some mild moderation could be a good compromise? Delete some posts that are irrelevant to discussion or go a bit overboard on schadenfreude.

 

[amirm]

I'm not fan of his in particular, but it seems like the review of an old speaker is being used to create a pissing circle on Danny.

Again, this speaker as a kit is sold by Danny. At no time did he indicate that his kit is any different. And as noted in the review, the problem seems to extend to other kits he sells. No matter who the designer is, if they are in this situation, they will get the scorn of the membership. It is not our job to censor that by locking the thread, etc.

People are also having some amount of fun with the topic with images of the panther, etc. which brings some levity. There is plenty of that kind of comment about us in Danny's videos.

 

[amirm]

Perhaps, some mild moderation could be a good compromise? Delete some posts that are irrelevant to discussion or go a bit overboard on schadenfreude.

For whose benefit? Folks can just read the original review and a page or two and go about their business. And whoever enjoys the banter can stay on.

We lock threads when there is so much conflict that we can't deal with moderation load and so close the thread. That is not the issue here.

 

[dfuller]

The designer was consulted before the review was even published. Lest you feel sorry for him still, this is one of his last responses to me:

"You seem to be using some lay understanding of how speakers work. You certainly struggle to understand the measurements. 5 hours to get useful information? Who has time for that?

Don't waste any more of my time."

Followed by:

"Oh yeah, one more thing. It was really funny that the customer didn't trust sending the speaker to me, but then you are still coming to me for help with them.

That did make me laugh...."

As to locking threads, that is of last resort as far as forum management. People should be free to comment even if they come in late into such a review/discussion.

Jesus, what an asshole. Sorry for my language, but wow.

 

[antcollinet]

Sorry for my language

No need.

We were all thinking similar.

 

[holbob]

5 hours to get useful information? Who has time for that?

Somebody professional and serious maybe.

 

[Sonny1]

This is a current kit offering. I feel sorry for anyone who buys this kit and puts the effort and time into building it. Danny doesn’t hold back from giving his opinion of other designs. He offers “fixes” for these designs. It’s only fair that his design receives a fair and objective evaluation. This design is clearly flawed. I hope Danny joins the discussion. Not holding my breath.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

The designer was consulted before the review was even published. Lest you feel sorry for him still, this is one of his last responses to me:

"You seem to be using some lay understanding of how speakers work. You certainly struggle to understand the measurements. 5 hours to get useful information? Who has time for that?

Don't waste any more of my time."

Followed by:

"Oh yeah, one more thing. It was really funny that the customer didn't trust sending the speaker to me, but then you are still coming to me for help with them.

That did make me laugh...."

How arrogant answers.

The delusions of grandeur seem to be running wild.

 

[restorer-john]

Danny doesn’t hold back from giving his opinion of other designs.

What remaining little regard I had for him completely evaporated when he lambasted the Yamaha NS-1000M crossovers as "pretty cheesy" and "it's bad, it's bad, it's bad".

Built from 1974 (nearly 50 years ago), the NS-1000M crossover is a low DC resistance design, metallised paper, self healing capacitors, multiple paralleled high quality caps and excellent terminals. And ferrite core inductors Danny, not steel core. The spring terminals will grip and hold bare wire between metal much better than his cheesy tube connectors.

And then you've got his 'measurements' above, vs these:

Yamaha-NS1000

Quite different. Both made with a Clio system...I feel sorry for the person who had his NS-1000Ms butchered by that guy.

 

[DanTheMan]

The designer was consulted before the review was even published. Lest you feel sorry for him still, this is one of his last responses to me:

"You seem to be using some lay understanding of how speakers work. You certainly struggle to understand the measurements. 5 hours to get useful information? Who has time for that?

Don't waste any more of my time."

Followed by:

"Oh yeah, one more thing. It was really funny that the customer didn't trust sending the speaker to me, but then you are still coming to me for help with them.

That did make me laugh...."

As to locking threads, that is of last resort as far as forum management. People should be free to comment even if they come in late into such a review/discussion.

This sounds like the Danny I know.

With that said, he has genuinely improved some lousy designs, his bookshelf speakers measure well as confirmed by Amir and I’m sure they sound like the measure. He also sells cryogenic power cables and buckets-o-tweaks that cost the unwitting a lot of money that have never been shown to have any actual audible benefits.

That‘s why I think these threads are important. If someone is “research”ing GR, these threads should hopefully get some hits and allow them to form a more balanced opinion instead of ‘reviews’ curated and moderated by the man himself or his hoard of goons. The intellects that frequent this place have a valid perspective worthy of an actual researcher’s time. Besides, I love a good panther show.

 

[OldManMatt]

Just a poorly designed speaker. I hate when a manufacturer tries to blame the consumer in some type of way instead of just owning up to the flaws. Nobody is perfect, no speaker design is perfect. Hard to trust a person with no humility or the ability to own up to something.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

It says a lot that the owner eventually smelled a rat, stopped trusting Danny and sent the speaker to Amir. (Thanks to whoever sent it in, very brave).