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AV123 / GR Research X-Voce Speaker Review

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 281 93.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 10 3.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 8 2.7%

  • Total voters
    301

DanielT

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I think that Danny is perfectly conscious that the Unique Selling Proposal of this model is: insanely Big central for the price...
Could very well also be a reasonable explanation.:oops:

Which, if so, makes it even worse. At least that's what I think. We can hope that it's only the self-imposed unconscious illusion trick that's haunting Danny, but if that's the case, we'll probably never know.
 
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Toni Mas

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Could very well also be a reasonable explanation.:oops:

Which, if so, makes it even worse. At least that's what I think. We can hope that it's only the self-imposed unconscious illusion trick that's haunting Danny, but if that's the case, we'll probably never know.
What I mean is such a wide WMTMW design definitely requieres a real 3 way crossover with a very low x point between the woofer and the mids, around or under 200hz in orden to avoid lobbing. The trouble is that such a low xover point cannot be acheived without drastically linearising the impedance of the drivers, which is out of question at this price point. Hence the xover is kept as simple as possible and the resulting flaws are deliberately accepted, with those awful peaks in the frequency response, which are also peaks in the impedance curve.
The problem is not that Danny does not make measurements under 200hz nor does not have the proper gear to make them. These can be done with Clio, Arta, etc... The question is that Danny perfectly knows that under 200hz these measurements cannot be shown and so avoids showing them!
 
D

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What I mean is such a wide WMTMW design definitely requieres a real 3 way crossover with a very low x point between the woofer and the mids, around or under 200hz in orden to avoid lobbing. The trouble is that such a low xover point cannot be acheived without drastically linearising the impedance of the drivers, which is out of question at this price point. Hence the xover is kept as simple as possible and the resulting flaws are deliberately accepted, with those awful peaks in the frequency response, which are also peaks in the impedance curve.
The problem is not that Danny does not make measurements under 200hz nor does not have the proper gear to make them. These can be done with Clio, Arta, etc... The question is that Danny perfectly knows that under 200hz these measurements cannot be shown and so avoids showing them!
I come to think of if his crossover upgrade kits also change the response below 200 Hz? And if they do, nobody knows how?
 

DanielT

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What I mean is such a wide WMTMW design definitely requieres a real 3 way crossover with a very low x point between the woofer and the mids, around or under 200hz in orden to avoid lobbing. The trouble is that such a low xover point cannot be acheived without drastically linearising the impedance of the drivers, which is out of question at this price point. Hence the xover is kept as simple as possible and the resulting flaws are deliberately accepted, with those awful peaks in the frequency response, which are also peaks in the impedance curve.
The problem is not that Danny does not make measurements under 200hz nor does not have the proper gear to make them. These can be done with Clio, Arta, etc... The question is that Danny perfectly knows that under 200hz these measurements cannot be shown and so avoids showing them!
But why such a construction for a center in a home theater system? What does it add? Mind you I'm not a home theater guy but to me it just looks weird with a big and clunky center, if , note IF, it doesn't add anything? But maybe it does, if one is well constructed? WMTMW as a center speaker in a home theater that is.

...does not make measurements below 200hz .. but he can take out the speakers and measure outdoors in some open field. How hard can it be? Doesn't Danny live in Texas? How cold and snowy does it get in Texas? Danny can hardly blame the weather for not doing that.
 
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Toni Mas

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But why such a construction for a center in a home theater system? What does it add? Mind you I'm not a home theater guy but to me it just looks weird with a big and clunky center, if , note IF, it doesn't add anything. But maybe it does, if one is well constructed? WMTMW as a center speaker in a home theater that is.

...does not make measurements below 200hz .. but he can take out the speakers and measure outdoors in some open field. How hard can it be? Doesn't Danny live in Texas? How cold and snowy does it get in Texas? That is, the weather, he should hardly be able to blame the weather for not doing it, that is.
With Clio or Arta you can make similar nearfield measurements as with Klippel ( mic close to the dustcap of the woofer). The measurement will be similarly ugly and as ugly as will be the sim of this xover with vituixcad or other software.
 

DanielT

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With Clio or Arta you can make similar nearfield measurements as with Klippel ( mic close to the dustcap of the woofer). The measurement will be similarly ugly and as ugly as will be the sim of this xover with vituixcad or other software.
Okay, which just goes to show the options Danny has but neglects to take advantage of.With the reservation that I have no idea what these Clio or Arta cost.
Having said that, in my eyes, the foundation of a speaker manufacturer should in any case be to have good measuring equipment.
 

Rick Sykora

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I come to think of if his crossover upgrade kits also change the response below 200 Hz? And if they do, nobody knows how?

Exactly, made this point in older thread. If he does not measure below 200 Hz, he is unaware about problems there and cannot ensure his upper response mods are aligning well with the lower bass.:oops:
 
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Bob101

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I'll say this only once (again and again).

Because he couldn't cut it as a designer,
he became a manufacturer
Of his own flawed designs
Danny has become a salesman
Shouting on the market square
 

holbob

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Once upon a time, in a world plagued by the devastating effects of global warming, there was a man named Danny. Danny was the owner of GR-Research, a company specializing in high-fidelity audio products. Little did anyone know that Danny's passion for music and his innovative audio solutions would play a pivotal role in addressing the global climate crisis.

Danny had always been deeply concerned about the state of the planet and wanted to make a positive impact. He believed that music had the power to bring people together and inspire change. With this vision in mind, he embarked on a mission to utilize his hifi products to raise awareness and combat global warming.

Danny recognized that the excessive energy consumption of traditional audio equipment contributed to carbon emissions. He saw an opportunity to revolutionize the industry by developing eco-friendly audio solutions. Through tireless research and development, Danny and his team created a line of energy-efficient speakers and amplifiers that provided exceptional sound quality while minimizing environmental impact.

As word spread about Danny's innovative products, people became intrigued by the idea of enjoying their favorite music while reducing their carbon footprint. The demand for GR-Research's eco-friendly audio equipment soared, and soon, music enthusiasts around the world were investing in these sustainable hifi products.

But Danny didn't stop there. He realized that he could harness the power of music and technology to spread awareness about climate change. He partnered with environmental organizations, hosting concerts and events that showcased the transformative power of music while educating people about the urgent need to address global warming.

Through these events, Danny inspired a global movement. Musicians, artists, and passionate individuals from all walks of life joined forces to raise awareness and take action. The music industry embraced sustainable practices, adopting energy-efficient equipment and organizing green initiatives for concerts and festivals.

As the demand for sustainable audio products grew, Danny's company flourished. GR-Research became a symbol of not only exceptional sound quality but also environmental responsibility. With the success of his business, Danny dedicated a portion of the profits to supporting renewable energy projects and reforestation efforts, further contributing to the fight against global warming.

Years passed, and the world witnessed a remarkable shift. Danny's innovative approach to hifi products and his unwavering commitment to the environment had a profound impact. Carbon emissions decreased, renewable energy became the norm, and communities united to tackle the climate crisis head-on.

Danny's story became an inspiration to many, reminding them that individual passions and innovative ideas could make a significant difference in addressing global challenges. His legacy as a pioneer in the audio industry and an environmental advocate lived on, reminding future generations of the transformative power of music and the importance of sustainable innovation.

And so, thanks to Danny's efforts, the world took a harmonious step forward, with music and sustainable technology leading the way in the fight against global warming.
 

Toni Mas

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I come to think of if his crossover upgrade kits also change the response below 200 Hz? And if they do, nobody knows how?
If this upgrade is simply about parts quality nothing will change. A passive xover so low requires linearising the impedance of the drivers which results in a huge increase in parts count, size, and cost, that is to say a totally different circuit. The best way to do this is avoiding passive xover and go active, same as with subwoofers. Passive subwoofers are a mess
 
D

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If this upgrade is simply about parts quality nothing will change. A passive xover so low requires linearising the impedance of the drivers which results in a huge increase in parts count, size, and cost, that is to say a totally different circuit. The best way to do this is avoiding passive xover and go active, same as with subwoofers. Passive subwoofers are a mess
It isn't about the quality. In his videos he "corrects" the speaker response by upgrading the crossover components. What happens to the low frequencies if he doesn't measure it?
 
D

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Exactly, made this point in older thread. If he does not measure below 200 Hz, he is unaware about problems there and cannot ensure his upper response mods are aligning well with the lower bass.:oops:

That's just.. stupid. In lack of a finer word.
Now I'm very curious to find out how speakers with his corrected crossovers measure.
 

Toni Mas

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It isn't about the quality. In his videos he "corrects" the speaker response by upgrading the crossover components. What happens to the low frequencies if he doesn't measure it?
I am quite sure that he perfectly knows what the response is under 200hz but he really considers It is simply good enough, though he is conscious that It cannot be shown to picky readers. Regarding his xovers upgrades i am quite sure that their brnefits are subjective only and part of his marketing hype: business as usual...
 

dtaylo1066

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Yeah, sure, but is it fair to consumers for Amir to say Schiit has changed when they are still selling many of the poor measuring products that seem more expensive than the good measuring products they sell, especially Yggdrasil at almost $3000 now!
I am not aware he has said they have changed, rather it seems to me that most recent products have been good to excellent in their measurements. Many consumer product companies offer an array of products, some great, and some clunkers.
 

Toni Mas

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Having said that, in my eyes, the foundation of a speaker manufacturer should in any case be to have good measuring equipment.
Whatever their measuring equipment, knowledge and skills, fine tuning by ear (their own, or the ears of a more or less trained panel of listenners) is the only way to validate any loudspeaker design.
A matter of science, but also widely a matter of taste.
 
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