Audiophonics HPA-S400ET or Hypex Nilai500DIY?

[marX]

Okay. I'm going to stick with my current DAC and only change it if I want new functions. I've learnt that because my DAC increases the bits to 32 I don't have to worry about the noise when using the DAC volume control. I'm going to return the Audiophonics HPA S400ET when it arrives. This amplifier is so good. Thank you to everyone who's helped me in this thread you gave me great advice. Thank you particularly to @marX for suggesting I get the Audiophonics NCX500 (HPA-S600NCX).

Awesome

I have to wait a bit (to purchase one for myself) as we are house hunting.

 

[Guddu]

Wow. This is an excellent amp. It's brought out the bass in my speakers which I wasn't getting with the Topping PA5

Are you sure you were listening at similar or close enough spl?
PA5 is as transparent as others, shouldn’t be any difference if level matched.

 

[ommadusk]

Are you sure you were listening at similar or close enough spl?
PA5 is as transparent as others, shouldn’t be any difference if level matched.

Yes I was. I assume the PA5 wasn't providing enough power for my speakers which are rated at 200w

 

[Jero]

Why run the Audiophonics amp in its lowest-gain mode? Its buffer stage is excellent and its default/medium gain mode provides about 20dB gain, which is plenty for any balanced DAC's 4V output.

By running the amp in low-gain mode, you are assuming that the DAC's analogue stage is quieter than the amp's input buffer - and that's not necessarily the case.

You can run the amp in low gain to lessen the bit loss u get from digital dac volume control. i gues thats a nice option so you can drive the streamer/dac almost at its max level output.
This assumption is correct, or no?

 

[Julf]

You can run the amp in low gain to lessen the bit loss u get from digital dac volume control. i gues thats a nice option so you can drive the streamer/dac almost at its max level output.
This assumption is correct, or no?

You only get "bit loss" if the volume control is very badly implemented - unless you simply mean that you don't use the full output range of the DAC?

 

[Jero]

There are 2 options to control the volume. in the analog domain, you need resistors bank or something. that would be nice. Or in the digital domain where a LOT of streamers introduce bit loss at -minus whatever it is and gets less if you go towards max output.
And its hard to determine which manufacturer is using what and if it creates losses or not. So i wonder....
To be on the safe side, i would go low gain on amp and near max volume on streamer/dac?

 

[Julf]

Or in the digital domain where a LOT of streamers introduce bit loss at -minus whatever it is and gets less if you go towards max output.

What does "a lot" mean? Which streamers, and how much? With modern processors (mostly ARM these days) the volume scaling is done with a lot of extra resolution.

 

[Jero]

I can speak only for myself ofcourse with a Cambridge CXN, i dont think this streamer has a zero loss volume control.

 

[Julf]

I can speak only for myself ofcourse with a Cambridge CXN, i dont think this streamer has a zero loss volume control.

What makes you think that? And "zero loss" is of course also an interesting concept - what if the loss is way beneath audible level?

 

[Jero]

if you bypass the volumecontrol and use a pre-amp u wont loose any bits from the streamer/dac. And if the bit loss is inaudible then its not a problem obviously.

 

[wyup]

I don't know if anyone noticed but I think we should compare Nilai500DIY and 1ET400 modules using the same power supply, in this case hopefully Hypex own PS500DIY, which with better components and at double the price than the SMPS600N400 in monoblock to which it is associated (or SMPS1200A180 in stereo) should give a performance increase.

I think power supply quality is paramount to the performance of the amp modules. This is where manufacturers like NAD use custom power modules with their Hypex designs of power amps.

 

[Killingbeans]

should give a performance increase.

In what way?

I really like Hypex, but a SMPS with "audiophile components" sort of puts a dent in my respect for them. Hope it pays off in terms of reliability and longevity, and isn't just words used to lure in clientele.

 

[Julf]

if you bypass the volumecontrol and use a pre-amp u wont loose any bits from the streamer/dac. And if the bit loss is inaudible then its not a problem obviously.

Well, except if the volume control is analog, and the SNR of the preamp is less than your (theoretical) number of bits...

 

[EdW]

I don't know if anyone noticed but I think we should compare Nilai500DIY and 1ET400 modules using the same power supply, in this case hopefully Hypex own PS500DIY, which with better components and at double the price than the SMPS600N400 in monoblock to which it is associated (or SMPS1200A180 in stereo) should give a performance increase.

I think power supply quality is paramount to the performance of the amp modules. This is where manufacturers like NAD use custom power modules with their Hypex designs of power amps.

Need to check max voltage rating of the IET400 - it may be unsuitable to connect to Nilai supply.
Conversely the IET400 has a slightly higher current rating which means it can drive lower impedance speakers which are becoming increasingly common. Remember many 4 ohm nominal speakers can fall below 3 ohms in the vital 50Hz - 600Hz where all the music power is. Even the IET400 is a little light on current delivery for speakers like the KEF Blade 2 meta where the IET7040 (preferably with the micro linear +/-70V PSU) is a better bet.

 

[wyup]

Need to check max voltage rating of the IET400 - it may be unsuitable to connect to Nilai supply.

I did check beforehand, Purifi specs recommend min 20 typ 65 Max 70 Volts for 1ET400.
Nilay supply is 70V/600W, within range.

Hypex regular supplies for Purifi modules are 65V/600W (monoblocks). I dont know whether 5V + may impact performance.

I believe 1ET400 will be more than enough for most loudspeakers, and being less powerful than the Nilay might give better sound quality, benefitting from better supply components. At least Amir has praised Purifi over Nilai.

 

[EdW]

I did check beforehand, Purifi specs recommend min 20 typ 65 Max 70 Volts for 1ET400.
Nilay supply is 70V, within range.

Hypex regular supplies for Purifi modules are 65V. I dont know whether 5V + may impact performance.

I believe 1ET400 Will be enough for most loudspeakers, and being less powerful than the Nilay might give better sound quality, benefitting from better supply components.

with a max rating of 70V for the amplifier I would be cautious of using 70V typical SMPS. You could easily end up with negative margin = reliability issues.
NAD realise variants of the IET400 design (C298 and M23, M33) with greater output voltage capability but I would think they have made one or two component value changes and perhaps a few other design changes to allow for increased supplies.

 

[wyup]

with a max rating of 70V for the amplifier I would be cautious of using 70V typical SMPS. You could easily end up with negative margin = reliability issues.
NAD realise variants of the IET400 design (C298 and M23, M33) with greater output voltage capability but I would think they have made one or two component value changes and perhaps a few other design changes to allow for increased supplies.

Do you believe Hypex has launched their most performant Nilai power supply and module at 70V to discourage mounting with Purifi, being at the limit? Or is it downright not compatible?
Nilai supply has ±18V/200mA auxiliary supply and 5W idle power, which SMPS1200 does not have.

Purifi absolute maximum rating is 75V. Recommended Typical rating is 65V (max 70V). Manual says:

Attempts to operate the Design within Absolute Maximum Rating but outside Recommended Operation Conditions may result in non-functional circuits and erroneous behavior.

Audio performance specs are not guaranteed outside Typ. recommended operating conditions.

 

[wyup]

Do you believe Hypex has launched their most performant Nilai power supply and module at 70V to discourage mounting with Purifi, being at the limit? Or is it downright not compatible?
Nilai supply has ±18V/200mA auxiliary supply and 5W idle power, which SMPS1200 does not have.

Purifi absolute maximum rating is 75V. Recommended Typical rating is 65V (max 70V). Manual says:

Attempts to operate the Design within Absolute Maximum Rating but outside Recommended Operation Conditions may result in non-functional circuits and erroneous behavior.

Audio performance specs are not guaranteed outside Typ. recommended operating conditions.

I asked Purifi and they replied:

From a datasheet point of view the PS500DIY over rides the max recommended supply voltage [of Purifi 1ET400A] as we specify +70V as max recommended supply voltage, and the PS500DIY states a 71V max.
It may work, but there are a risk that the over voltage protection function of the 1ET400A module will switch off.