Help with Decision: Purifi, Nilai, NC502MP or ?

[ambd]

Hi,

This is my second post in ASR. I appreciate the effort of the community being objective. So, I will try to be as objective as I can be. I may fail though.

I would like to buy a class D amplifier to for my stereo system and I need help deciding among the different options: Purifi, NC502, NC500X, Nilai, etc.

Currently, my stereo is a MacBook feeding (with Audirvana) to Mini DSP Flex (via USB). Mini DSP Flex sends high pass with some PEQ to Fosi V3, and also sends open signal to a Rythmik L12 subwoofer. Fosi feeds main speakers, NHT C3 (85db, 6ohm).

My listening room is around 230 sq ft, and my listening position is 10 feet from speakers. I mostly listen around 70-75 db with peaks of 80-85db, this is measured with a sound level meter at my listening position. So, considering listening position distance from speakers, I do not need a lot of watts for my type of listening, but I would appreciate some headroom in watts for peaks.

On a subjective side, the NHT C3 are bright, but that can be tamed with some PEQ (suggested by Amir on his review). More on a subjective, personal, level, I listen to a lot of jazz, country, soul, indie rock, folk, progressive rock, among other more obscure musical genres.

Now, I am looking at the many Purifi stereo offerings from respected manufacturers (such as Boxem, Buckeye, VTV, Audiophonics, March Audio, etc) but I am wondering if with my setup I would be able to even to listen to the difference between a Nilai, a Purifi or a NC502 based amplifier. I know the former has a much better Sinad. Somehow, the ability to change op amps in some of the Purifi amplifiers (Audiophonics, VTV, Apollon, March Audio) is something that interest me, but on the other side the discrete components of the Nilai is very intriguing.

Surely, enough, as much as this is an objective forum, and I respect that. I would also welcome some subjective listening experiences from owners of any of these amplifiers.

And if the question arises, I am only upgrading from the Fosi because I would like to listen to this new, supposedly much better, generation of Class D amplifiers.

Any help, ideas, comments, thoughts, numbers and calculations, are highly appreciated.

Thanks!

Alan B

 

[Chazz6]

Your approximate budget?

If Nilai, this seems to be a DIY assembly kit - you will do that? If not, any of the others that you mention.

 

[ambd]

Thanks. My budget is no more than 1.4K. Yes, I can do some soldering if needed, although Deer Creek told me that there is almost no soldering involved in putting together the Nilai. So, you think that the Nilai is the better option? Could you explain why?

 

[kemmler3D]

Hi,

This is my second post in ASR. I appreciate the effort of the community being objective. So, I will try to be as objective as I can be. I may fail though.

I would like to buy a class D amplifier to for my stereo system and I need help deciding among the different options: Purifi, NC502, NC500X, Nilai, etc.

Currently, my stereo is a MacBook feeding (with Audirvana) to Mini DSP Flex (via USB). Mini DSP Flex sends high pass with some PEQ to Fosi V3, and also sends open signal to a Rythmik L12 subwoofer. Fosi feeds main speakers, NHT C3 (85db, 6ohm).

My listening room is around 230 sq ft, and my listening position is 10 feet from speakers. I mostly listen around 70-75 db with peaks of 80-85db, this is measured with a sound level meter at my listening position. So, considering listening position distance from speakers, I do not need a lot of watts for my type of listening, but I would appreciate some headroom in watts for peaks.

On a subjective side, the NHT C3 are bright, but that can be tamed with some PEQ (suggested by Amir on his review). More on a subjective, personal, level, I listen to a lot of jazz, country, soul, indie rock, folk, progressive rock, among other more obscure musical genres.

Now, I am looking at the many Purifi stereo offerings from respected manufacturers (such as Boxem, Buckeye, VTV, Audiophonics, March Audio, etc) but I am wondering if with my setup I would be able to even to listen to the difference between a Nilai, a Purifi or a NC502 based amplifier. I know the former has a much better Sinad. Somehow, the ability to change op amps in some of the Purifi amplifiers (Audiophonics, VTV, Apollon, March Audio) is something that interest me, but on the other side the discrete components of the Nilai is very intriguing.

Surely, enough, as much as this is an objective forum, and I respect that. I would also welcome some subjective listening experiences from owners of any of these amplifiers.

And if the question arises, I am only upgrading from the Fosi because I would like to listen to this new, supposedly much better, generation of Class D amplifiers.

Any help, ideas, comments, thoughts, numbers and calculations, are highly appreciated.

Thanks!

Alan B

So you're doing around 85dB at 10ft which means you're using about 6 watts of your amp's power. In that case, other than maybe some HF load dependency, it's doubtful that you would hear any difference between the Fosi and the Hypex or Purifi offerings. You still have several dB of headroom with the Fosi.

My honest advice is to spend your amp budget on better speakers, instead, if you have any in mind.

If you are still set on an amp upgrade though, for your requirements it would be virtually impossible, if not completely impossible to hear the difference between any of the amps you mentioned. I would just go for the cheapest one that has the features, look, build quality, warranty, etc. that you want.

 

[Matias]

In your place I would get a Buckeye NC502MP, which is a great module, with tons of power and low enough distortion.

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Or maybe wait and get Buckeye's new integrated based on that same module?

And save money to upgrade to better speakers later.

For example, in the US:

SIERRA-LX PAIR

Our Latest And Greatest Bookshelf Monitor Class-leading bass extension, massive dynamics and midbass punch, high power handling, exceptionally wide and linear dispersion combined with some of the best measurements in the industry, our new LX is truly something quite unique and special. This is...

ascendacoustics.com

Measurements for speaker Ascend Acoustics Sierra-LX

www.spinorama.org

 

[kemmler3D]

In your place I would get a Buckeye NC502MP, which is a great module, with tons of power and low enough distortion.

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Or maybe wait and get Buckeye's new integrated based on that same module?

And save money to upgrade to better speakers later.

For example, in the US:

SIERRA-LX PAIR

Our Latest And Greatest Bookshelf Monitor Class-leading bass extension, massive dynamics and midbass punch, high power handling, exceptionally wide and linear dispersion combined with some of the best measurements in the industry, our new LX is truly something quite unique and special. This is...

ascendacoustics.com

Measurements for speaker Ascend Acoustics Sierra-LX

www.spinorama.org

If I were OP I'd get the sierras now and wait for a good second-hand deal on an amp later... if ever. That's a considerable, definite upgrade in sound quality vs. a questionable one. The Sierras are actually more sensitive which means the Fosi might really just be good enough. Kinda bakes your noodle that a $100 amp might be good enough for $1500 speakers, but here we are, it's 2024 and electronics are really good now.

 

[Chazz6]

... So, you think that the Nilai is the better option? Could you explain why?

No, I was just checking the DIY aspect. Your budget is enough to get all except maybe the Rouge Audio in place of the Fosi V3. You might also want to check whether you can find and put in place a beefy power supply to drive the Fosi; some chatter says even its 48V supply is wanting. But I have no direct experience. If that is possible, you'd probably be able to upgrade your speakers, too, on your budget.

 

[JustJones]

Deer Creek sells Nilai amps assembled as well. I don't know anything about the quality of their work.

Hypex Nilai 500 Stereo Amplifier

In Stock Same Business Day Shipping The Hypex Nilai 500 stereo amplifier provides ultra high-end class D amplification. The amplifier competes with high-end products, providing serious sound for a fraction of the price. Sound is rendered with realism, finesse and ultra low noise. This precision...

deercreekaudio.com

Buckeye has a good following here and look like a better value. I don't think you would hear any difference between any of the amps you've mentioned.

 

[ambd]

So you're doing around 85dB at 10ft which means you're using about 6 watts of your amp's power. In that case, other than maybe some HF load dependency, it's doubtful that you would hear any difference between the Fosi and the Hypex or Purifi offerings. You still have several dB of headroom with the Fosi.

My honest advice is to spend your amp budget on better speakers, instead, if you have any in mind.

If you are still set on an amp upgrade though, for your requirements it would be virtually impossible, if not completely impossible to hear the difference between any of the amps you mentioned. I would just go for the cheapest one that has the features, look, build quality, warranty, etc. that you want.

Yes, you are kind of right with the watts needed.

By my calculation, the NHT C3 with their 85 db efficiency, lose 12 db at listening position due to being 10 ft away. So, to get to 82db I need around 8 watts. Now, some peaks are easily 10db, so that takes us to 92-95, for those peaks I need anywhere from 64 watts-128 watts. Surely, just peaks. My Fosi has the 48v power supply. But, my Mini Dsp Flex is unbalanced so it puts out max 2V and that also takes away some db.

From a subjective level, I usually have the Fosi knob at 75% and the Mini DSP easily gets to 0db, meaning full 2 volts. So, there may be a case for the need of more clean watts.

Now, as per the speaker. Yes, the Sierras are much better for sure. I bought some Whaferdale Lintons but I did not like them in my set up. Actually, and I know that numbers do not lie, I like the NHT C3, the soundstage it presents in my room is better than what the Lintons put forward, and I like the midrange a lot.

So, for now, I would like to keep the NHTs. I got it at a real good price, second hand, but almost new.

 

[ambd]

If I were OP I'd get the sierras now and wait for a good second-hand deal on an amp later... if ever. That's a considerable, definite upgrade in sound quality vs. a questionable one. The Sierras are actually more sensitive which means the Fosi might really just be good enough. Kinda bakes your noodle that a $100 amp might be good enough for $1500 speakers, but here we are, it's 2024 and electronics are really good now.

Yes, totally true. The 85 db (almost 84db) at 5-6 ohm of the C3s is not ideal at all. But I like their sound. With Amir suggested PEQ, with some small changes, and with the subwoofer, they sound really good. I spent many months overseas living with the NHT Classic Twos, and, maybe, I got used to their sound signature. My plan was to keep these speakers for a while, and enjoy them, and then later down the road change them.

 

[ambd]

In your place I would get a Buckeye NC502MP, which is a great module, with tons of power and low enough distortion.

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Or maybe wait and get Buckeye's new integrated based on that same module?

And save money to upgrade to better speakers later.

For example, in the US:

SIERRA-LX PAIR

Our Latest And Greatest Bookshelf Monitor Class-leading bass extension, massive dynamics and midbass punch, high power handling, exceptionally wide and linear dispersion combined with some of the best measurements in the industry, our new LX is truly something quite unique and special. This is...

ascendacoustics.com

Measurements for speaker Ascend Acoustics Sierra-LX

www.spinorama.org

Yes, I was eyeing that Buckeye NC502, and also this one below from Audiophonics.

Audiophonics AP-300S500NC Power Amplifier Ncore NC502MP

The Audiophonics AP300-S500NC is a stereo amplifier based on a Hypex Ncore NC502MP amplifier module. It is ideal for providing a significant power reserve (2x500W @ 4Ω) without sacrificing sound reproduction quality.

www.audiophonics.fr

This move, with either brand, will save me some money that I can use later down the road to change speakers. Also, to be sincere, speakers are the elements that somehow changes more, in my subjective view, the sound of a system. And I had such a bad experience with the Whaferdale Lintons, and the Whaferdale Diamons 225 that I am sort of tired of trying new speakers. I like for now the sound of the NHT C3s and this is helping me to reconnect and re discover what type of sound I like from my stereo. And yes, I am aware that is totally subjective.

 

[kemmler3D]

Yes, totally true. The 85 db (almost 84db) at 5-6 ohm of the C3s is not ideal at all. But I like their sound. With Amir suggested PEQ, with some small changes, and with the subwoofer, they sound really good. I spent many months overseas living with the NHT Classic Twos, and, maybe, I got used to their sound signature. My plan was to keep these speakers for a while, and enjoy them, and then later down the road change them.

Amir's measurements look pretty decent and if you are happy with them, I think it's fair to say don't mess with success.

In that case I would keep my advice on the amp the same - just get the one that ticks the functional / aesthetic boxes that are important to you, you really don't need to worry about running out of juice unless you start listening much louder or further away. The difference in sound quality among the amps will be zero in practice, they're all simply amazingly clean amps.

Someday if you get new speakers, you can take the Fosi and the NHTs, get a couple WiiM minis, put them in another room, and have TWO killer systems in your house.

 

[ambd]

Amir's measurements look pretty decent and if you are happy with them, I think it's fair to say don't mess with success.

In that case I would keep my advice on the amp the same - just get the one that ticks the functional / aesthetic boxes that are important to you, you really don't need to worry about running out of juice unless you start listening much louder or further away. The difference in sound quality among the amps will be zero in practice, they're all simply amazingly clean amps.

Someday if you get new speakers, you can take the Fosi and the NHTs, get a couple WiiM minis, put them in another room, and have TWO killer systems in your house.

Yes, that is what I thought. If it works, then leave it alone.

Developing that line of reasoning, all equal, maybe I should go with the amplifier that could provide me more fun, which I would see as the amplifier that allows me some op amp rolling. In that case, it would be between the VTV Stereo Purifi with VTV Buffer (that allows DIP8 and API op amps), the Audiophonics LPA S400ET (the one with the small box, that would not accommodate the bigger discrete API op amps such as Weiss or Sparkos but would easily accommodate the small DIP 8 ones) and the bigger Audiophonics HPA S400ET (which will accommodate the big discrete API op amps but with an extension cable due to the limited height of the case)

 

[JustJones]

Old article but worth a read.

Op Amps: Myths & Facts

INTRO: The op amp is a fundamental building block of audio gear. Op amps are widely used and, not surprisingly, they’re a popular topic amo...

nwavguy.blogspot.com

 

[kemmler3D]

Yes, that is what I thought. If it works, then leave it alone.

Developing that line of reasoning, all equal, maybe I should go with the amplifier that could provide me more fun, which I would see as the amplifier that allows me some op amp rolling. In that case, it would be between the VTV Stereo Purifi with VTV Buffer (that allows DIP8 and API op amps), the Audiophonics LPA S400ET (the one with the small box, that would not accommodate the bigger discrete API op amps such as Weiss or Sparkos but would easily accommodate the small DIP 8 ones) and the bigger Audiophonics HPA S400ET (which will accommodate the big discrete API op amps but with an extension cable due to the limited height of the case)

If that sounds fun to you then go for it, although I doubt the differences between op amps will be readily audible, if at all. Having fun messing around is as good a reason to choose an amp as any in this situation.

 

[ambd]

I am reading the article about op amps quoted above. I agree with a lot of what is advanced in the article. My only experience listening (subjectively or not) a difference between op amps was when I replaced the stock Aiyima 7 op amps with the MUSES02 op amps. For what is worth, it was night and day. It was so evident that I actually bought a second Aiyima, and we installed the Muse in only one of them.

Then, with some friends, I did a blind test, I needed to identify the one with the Muse and I was able to point out the Muse 8 times out of 8. Although, I should confess that the only reason I knew that the Muse was in place was because with the Muse the Aiyima lost a significant amount of db in the high areas of the frequency spectrum. It lost a lot of dbs from 10khz up. Probably it was due to a serious mismatch. So, that stuck with me. But, as much as I clearly listen to the difference, it could easily have been that the Muse was very unhappy in that board.

 

[kemmler3D]

the only reason I knew that the Muse was in place was because with the Muse the Aiyima lost a significant amount of db in the high areas of the frequency spectrum. It lost a lot of dbs from 10khz up. Probably it was due to a serious mismatch

Right, I should say I doubt there would be much of a difference assuming everything is working right. There shouldn't be a big change in frequency response, especially with high quality amps like the ones you're considering. If there is, hopefully you do hear it and fix the problem.

 

[ambd]

Right, I should say I doubt there would be much of a difference assuming everything is working right. There shouldn't be a big change in frequency response, especially with high quality amps like the ones you're considering. If there is, hopefully you do hear it and fix the problem.

I did some numbers.

I usually listen at a distance of 10 feet from the speakers. So, per my calculations, to reach around 82db - 85db at the listening position (using my 85db speakers), I need around 20 watts. But, to properly handle those for 8 -10 db peaks over those 85db (to get around 92db at listening position), I would need around 200-250 watts. And that could be where the Fosi V3 may be struggling a bit. According to Amir, the Fosi in 4 ohm puts out 141 watts before distortion is above the threshold. So, in 6ohm, the Fosi probably puts out around 110-120 watts before distortion rises above the threshold.

In that sense, having a better amplifier, capable of reaching 200-250 watts before distortion, matters.

 

[JPA]

I did some numbers.

I usually listen at a distance of 10 feet from the speakers. So, per my calculations, to reach around 82db - 85db at the listening position (using my 85db speakers), I need around 20 watts. But, to properly handle those for 8 -10 db peaks over those 85db (to get around 92db at listening position), I would need around 200-250 watts. And that could be where the Fosi V3 may be struggling a bit. According to Amir, the Fosi in 4 ohm puts out 141 watts before distortion is above the threshold. So, in 6ohm, the Fosi probably puts out around 110-120 watts before distortion rises above the threshold.

In that sense, having a better amplifier, capable of reaching 200-250 watts before distortion, matters.

It looks to me like you're not accounting for room reflections in your calculations. There may be a formula to calculate their contribution, but I don't know what it is off the top of my head. At any rate, I'm guessing you could easily add 3-5dB to what you get from the direct sound. That would reduce the power requirement to a level the Fosi can handle.

If Klipsch can do it, so can you.

 

[daniboun]

Having owned almost all the amps you mention (Purifi, NC502MP; NC252MP and many others). I would focus on that if you are not averse to DIY)
Sinad / quality / price ratio = Unbeatable

"Micro Bamboo Project" : 3E Audio 260-2-29A Stereo amplifier + Micro-Audio PSU

Hi Amigos ) As promised, I remain faithful to my Diyer position ) After my dual Mono project "Bamboo" I return to the scene with a new project "Micro Bamboo" to pay tribute to Micro Audio and its audiophile grade SMPS630-SO PSU. (46V/13A or 51V/11,5A) Now that we know the measurements of the 3E...

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