Audiophonics DA-S250NC DAC & Power Amp Review

[Billy Budapest]

Can you? Please provide an example with a similar feature set, power output, and measurements.

See my example above. Better measurements, actually, but at this level of performance I doubt they will be audible. But my main concern is price—the Audiophonics is a solid performer but $640 isn’t chump change and I expected better for the price—especially for the DAC section.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Not sure how exactly my earlier post got erased but I am reposting it now. Here’s an example:

SMSL SU-1 DAC: $80
Topping PA5 amp: $350

$430 total. Better performance than the Audiophonics offering at 2/3 the price.

I am sure you guys can come up with other similar solutions that are also cheaper than $640 but you get the idea.

This is not a comparable product.

The SMSL SU-1 is barebones and does not have many of the features this Audiophonics unit does - no remote and no bluetooth, for example.

The Topping PA5 has been discontinued and had a reputation for being unreliable.

The aesthetics of those units are simply not in the same class as this Audiophonics unit.

These are totally different products targeting different use cases and users.

 

[regan]

This is not a comparable product.

The SMSL SU-1 is barebones and does not have many of the features this Audiophonics unit does - no remote and no bluetooth, for example.

The Topping PA5 has been discontinued and had a reputation for being unreliable.

The aesthetics of those units are simply not in the same class as this Audiophonics unit.

These are totally different products targeting different use cases and users.

How much worse could the SMSL A300 be at $195 though? Genuine question. It's almost 4 times cheaper

• Input:RCA,BT,USB
• THD+N:0.004%
• SNR:103dB
• Germany’s Infineon’s new digitaL high-power ampLifier chip
• Output Power:
  • Stereo 165Wx2(4Ω) / 85Wx2(8Ω)
    BTL 330Wx1(4-8Ω)

https://hifi-express.com/products/smsl-a300-hi-res-power-amplifier

 

[clemenules]

See my example above. Better measurements, actually, but at this level of performance I doubt they will be audible. But my main concern is price—the Audiophonics is a solid performer but $640 isn’t chump change and I expected better for the price—especially for the DAC section.

This is not a comparable product.

The SMSL SU-1 is barebones and does not have many of the features this Audiophonics unit does - no remote and no bluetooth, for example.

The Topping PA5 has been discontinued and had a reputation for being unreliable.

The aesthetics of those units are simply not in the same class as this Audiophonics unit.

These are totally different products targeting different use cases and users.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so we can leave aesthetisc aside. Argument distracts from the following:

Billy's option:
- Max power PA5 = 83 W @4 Ohm vs DA-s250nc 205 W @ 4 Ohm
- Plenty of unhappy PA5 customers: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...poll-for-topping-pa5-owners-only-please.33293
- seperate boxes
- separate powerbrick for amp
- One made by a company that introduces new products at breakneck speed and abandons them after a year, the other product using parts that have been manufactured for many years already.

How is this comparable?

 

[Bleib]

How much worse could the SMSL A300 be at $195 though? Genuine question. It's almost 4 times cheaper

• Input:RCA,BT,USB
• THD+N:0.004%
• SNR:103dB
• Germany’s Infineon’s new digitaL high-power ampLifier chip
• Output Power:
  • Stereo 165Wx2(4Ω) / 85Wx2(8Ω)
    BTL 330Wx1(4-8Ω)

https://hifi-express.com/products/smsl-a300-hi-res-power-amplifier

The dac in it is not the best plus there is some hissing in the treble.. about 2x50w is clean

 

[Rottmannash]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so we can leave aesthetisc aside. Argument distracts from the following:

Billy's option:
- Max power PA5 = 83 W @4 Ohm vs DA-s250nc 205 W @ 4 Ohm
- Plenty of unhappy PA5 customers: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...poll-for-topping-pa5-owners-only-please.33293
- seperate boxes
- separate powerbrick for amp
- One made by a company that introduces new products at breakneck speed and abandons them after a year, the other product using parts that have been manufactured for many years already.

How is this comparable?

I'm curious what you mean when you claim, "abandons them after a year".

 

[regan]

The dac in it is not the best plus there is some hissing in the treble.. about 2x50w is clean

I agree it's not the best DAC but it's far from worst. Apart from the design/convenience all in one advantage I can't think of another significant advantage to justify the $760 (vs $195 for smsl). Infineon is not hypex but still...

If this amp had wireless streaming it would have been something (aio complete package) but it only offers BT (the wifi version is $970... ). It also lacks the sub out smsl has. Just sayin.

Nevertheless this is probably the best bang for buck aio solution out there and I'm really glad to see it on the market. Great measurements and features, if I wasn't a cheap fuck I'd be less salty probably.

 

[tmtomh]

Most of the critiques of the price/performance equation of this unit, or its feature set. are in my view not persuasive critiques. They are valid points, yes - but to me they're about use-cases, not about actual flaws or deficiencies.

If you want the benefits and attributes of a Hypex-based power amp section, a singe-box solution with a remote, and a nice, usable display, then it's hard to argue against this unit's price, performance, or features. We can certainly discuss whether or not the DAC's output should be slightly higher, but isn't customizing the output of the DAC so that 0dB corresponds with the amp's max power a good thing? Isn't the integration of the components to create an integrated amp that you can't clip and will be running at low distortion no matter how high you crank it precisely a benefit of system integration?

If you want higher output from your DAC, then get a separate DAC and amp. If you want to be able to pick and choose your DAC and your amp module to achieve the best possible performance and highest possible output per dollar, then get a separate DAC and amp. Simple. But none of that means that this unit isn't a good value. It's an excellent value for those who want a compact, simple, convenient, well-integrated, fool-proof package. A modest price premium for this kind of integration is not fluff or a ripoff or silly - and the price premium here is modest if you do an apples-to-apples comparison with Hypex-based power amps.

As for "ChiFi," I think there's a big difference between that term and older uses of "Japan-Fi" or "Klingon-Fi" or whatever: compared to 40-50 years ago, engineering and production are much more globally dispersed and much less neatly distributed in the nations where the brands are based. In short, a lot of non-"ChiFi" gear is manufactured in China, or assembled in China, or uses components or circuit elements that are made in China, and a good deal of engineering goes into all that even if the overall design is engineered in the US or some EU country. So the term is inaccurate and misleading, and IMHO obscures more than it reveals. I think in 2023 it's just dumb to keep using it.

 

[ohnonotagain]

Also curious? Can you provide alternatives for similar or lower price:

Alternative 2:
- Performance similar to or better than Audiophonics DA-S250NC
- DAC + AMP + power supply (!) in one box

I'll bite. The Sabaj A30a costs $500. I don't know of official measurements for it, but it's almost identical to the VMV A2 which scores 3dB better than the DA-S250NC in Amir's test. Compared to the DA-S250NC, it has a subwoofer output and a line input, but no pre-out. They have roughly the same power output. Unlike the DA-S250NC, the Sabaj is "fully digital" which means that, in place of a DAC, it uses a PWM converter, which directly converts the digital signal to the PWM input required by the amplifier. In my opinion, it also looks a bit better. Overall I'm impressed that Audiophonics are able to put something together that's in the same ballpark though.

 

[Talisman]

Not sure how exactly my earlier post got erased but I am reposting it now. Here’s an example:

SMSL SU-1 DAC: $80
Topping PA5 amp: $350

$430 total. Better performance than the Audiophonics offering at 2/3 the price.

I am sure you guys can come up with other similar solutions that are also cheaper than $640 but you get the idea.

On which planet would this combination be better?
Pa5 has a design error admitted by its own designer on this site causing it to fail.
smsl su1 has a frequency response error causing a rolloff at high frequencies.
we are also talking about 50watts against 150.

 

[Bleib]

On which planet would this combination be better?
Pa5 has a design error admitted by its own designer on this site causing it to fail.
smsl su1 has a frequency response error causing a rolloff at high frequencies.
we are also talking about 50watts against 150.

PA5 is no longer available so it should be compared to PA7(+)
Also, that combination has no remote (SMSL SU-1+PA5)
Surely C100 would be a better DAC anyway.

 

[Overseas]

I see that long term reliability of Audiophonics is taken for granted!?

 

[clemenules]

I'll bite. The Sabaj A30a costs $500. I don't know of official measurements for it, but it's almost identical to the VMV A2 which scores 3dB better than the DA-S250NC in Amir's test. Compared to the DA-S250NC, it has a subwoofer output and a line input, but no pre-out. They have roughly the same power output. Unlike the DA-S250NC, the Sabaj is "fully digital" which means that, in place of a DAC, it uses a PWM converter, which directly converts the digital signal to the PWM input required by the amplifier. In my opinion, it also looks a bit better. Overall I'm impressed that Audiophonics are able to put something together that's in the same ballpark though.

Yes the sabaj a30a did catch my attention, as did the HK Citation amp.

Alas no measurements. Just because a30a uses the same chip as the vmv A2 doesn't mean it's implemented the same way, no? And then EUR 550 feels like an expensive gamble.

 

[GiBo61]

Yes the sabaj a30a did catch my attention, as did the HK Citation amp.

Alas no measurements. Just because a30a uses the same chip as the vmv A2 doesn't mean it's implemented the same way, no? And then EUR 550 feels like an expensive gamble.

You can get the Sabaj A30a for arounf €450 from https://hifi-express.com/. I got mine last November and I'm REALLY happy with it. Here are my first impressions about it and after six month I can confirm every word I wrote (now is connected to my Elac Vela BS403 and I have no reasons to complain about the quality of the low frequencies). However those are subjective impressions and without proper measurements we cannot be sure if it behaves like a SMSL vmv A2. In my opinion the Sabaj A30a is a very good competitor for the Audiophonics DA-S250NC. I also made a comparison with a much more expensive vintage Rotel AVR (Rotel RSX 1067) and I published here my considerations.

 

[tmtomh]

Did I read correctly that the A30a is rated for 100wpc into 8 ohms at 10% THD? If so, what would it's apples-to-apples power comparison be with the DA-S250NC?

 

[GiBo61]

Did I read correctly that the A30a is rated for 100wpc into 8 ohms at 10% THD? If so, what would it's apples-to-apples power comparison be with the DA-S250NC?

Sabaj A30a is a sort of clone of the SMSL VMV A2. You can find Amir's review of the SMSL VMV A2 amplòifier here (Max power 206 watt @4 Ohm, 103 watt @8 Ohm).

 

[amarsicola]

Another important consideration is that even if the DAC is good but not SOTA, in the end you care about the overall system performance. Compared to a good NC252MP amplifier only implementation (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/buckeye-6-channel-amplifier-review.18579/) the DAC impact just looses 2db SINAD and 20 watts in power @4ohm, both of which absolutely irrelevant.

 

[pogo]

I can guess that all bars being the same length would be ideal but I've no idea if variations, for example those in this graph, represent a deficiency real-world operation and if so, what it would be like for users.

In the real world it depends on the impedance curve (speaker) in the form of the EPDR value, including the phase. Here is a good amp example: Link

These deficits are audible at any volume level when the speakers show increased phase shifts! It is good that this test is made here in the meantime

 

[marX]

Has anyone bought this AMP? How reliable is it?
Also is it 'moddable' with better mains shielding and possibly more output voltage from the DAC section?

I'm comparing it against the Arcam SA10, Cambridge Audio CXA 61, Rotel A14 tribute etc all of which are cheaper than this.
(I also tried the Nord Acoustics amps but when including tax, it's costly and cannot seem to find any integrated amp with DAC on their website).

Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

 

[DTTOM37]

Has anyone bought this AMP? How reliable is it?
Also is it 'moddable' with better mains shielding and possibly more output voltage from the DAC section?

I'm comparing it against the Arcam SA10, Cambridge Audio CXA 61, Rotel A14 tribute etc all of which are cheaper than this.
(I also tried the Nord Acoustics amps but when including tax, it's costly and cannot seem to find any integrated amp with DAC on their website).

Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

Hi,
- used it for about 4 month (The DAW version, but with an RPI4 connected via USB to the DAC input).
- the DAC implementation works reliable and the amplifier seems to be quite performant for it's price point
- The display is useful and blends out quickly.
- The remote works reliable
- Using toslink in from my TV worked without any lags
- subjectively the coax input sounded best (used with an DVD player as CD transport)
- build quality is remarkable at the price point
- BT is always on - with good reception
- I used a pair of active subs (XTZ 10.17 edge) through the pre out
- Speakers were Q-Acoustics 3030i and B&W 805s
- in my subjective experience, the device performed excitingly well & far above pricepoint expectation

Personally, I would refrain from any of the big brand names, just remember the pricepoint they call when using the NC25x modules.