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Audiophile hobby is a scam?

Doodski

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I don't know where any scientific mystery comes in with regard to existing tech.
I think the dividing line/sciency mystery of many ASR peeps is @ the choice of the degree of reactance whether that be active or passive. That is the level where the operations become tedious, laborious and one does not simply do them for giggles and so we never have solid science other than strong opinions and stuff. It is also the point where amp power is cheap and easy these days and so that high power output amplification solves issues right there dead in their tracks.
 

DLS79

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There are many others, but I don't wanna search/re-read annoying things :)

The only thing annoying is your rhetoric!

If Something is audibly transparent, then it is solved for all intensive purposes for the majority of the general public. Note that doesn't mean perfect!


For example this isn't "perfect", but it's ludicrously far beyond what anyone in any field needs.
 

Ghostofmerlin

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I can feel your pain! :p

I'm careful with my answers because it is very obvious that @sunjam has his own agenda. I don't believe that he's malicious (I could be wrong), I think he simply cannot believe that measurements have a greater authority then his perceptions.


Once a person achieves this degree of detachment from reality, it becomes difficult to communicate with them ... or at least communicate reliably.

Jim

p.s. - Ukulele, yes. Banjo, no. :D :D :D
Screenshot 2024-04-30 at 2.47.50 PM.png


:D
 

kemmler3D

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Someone found the perfect amp already, declared amplification 'done' and we should all go home. And got no less than 50 likes... sounds quite close to a "majority oppinion" to me.
For a lot of use cases, the NCx500 is pretty much perfect, in the sense that you're not going to realistically hear anything wrong with it. Not every use case, but you see what I mean. The noise and distortion are both inaudible in most use cases. Noise and distortion definitionally cover any and all alterations and additions to the original signal. So what remains to be solved?

If something's been missed in the testing, nobody has pointed out specifically what that might be.
 
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Jim Taylor

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how about this gem: "power amplification is a solved issue now". Someone found the perfect amp already, declared amplification 'done' and we should all go home. And got no less than 50 likes... sounds quite close to a "majority oppinion" to me.

There are many others, but I don't wanna search/re-read annoying things :)

"Solved issue" does not equate to "perfect". Cell phone communication is a solved issue, meaning that we know how to do it at will. That doesn't mean that it's perfect. There are still dead areas.
Refrigeration is also a "solved issue". Your groceries depend on it, and have for decades. Still, it's not perfect; compressors fail and leaks can occur.

There are other examples, but suffice it to say that mature technologies can be solved issues without being "perfect".

Jim
 

lashto

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For a lot of use cases, the NCx500 is pretty much perfect, in the sense that you're not going to realistically hear anything wrong with it. Not every use case, but you see what I mean. The noise and distortion are both inaudible in most use cases. Noise and distortion definitionally cover any and all alterations and additions to the original signal. So what remains to be solved?

If something's been missed in the testing, nobody has pointed out specifically what that might be.
I can see what you mean .. also can agree with much of that perspective.

OTOH, I do not think any of us gets to redefine terms like perfect/done/solved. Talking about your distortion example, there is only one perfect/done/solved in engineering/math terms: zero distortion. And not only at one frequency but at "all" of them.
And that's only "perfect in engineering/math terms" because many ears/brains/people may not agree at all. But let's not even talk about that..

As about "inaudible", I do not see that in the same category as perfect/done/solved. That threshhold is not even clearly defined. And it's a can of worms cause anyone can re-define "inaudible for me".

It's fine for someone to say "amps are a solved issues for me". About any device. But to proclaim that "amplification was solved, everyone move along" is quite different. IMO, that's a case of Pauli's not-even-wrong.

Anyway .. mine is not exactly a popular oppinion and it does not have to be .. and not sure what is the topic of this thread but we are surely off :)
 
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Blumlein 88

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I can see what you mean .. also can agree with much of that perspective.

OTOH, I do not think any of us gets to redefine terms like perfect/done/solved. Talking about your distortion example, there is only one perfect/done/solved in engineering terms: zero distortion. And not only at one frequency but at "all" of them.
And that's only "perfect in engineering terms" because many ears/brains/people may not agree at all. But let's not even talk about that :D

As about "inaudible", I do not see that in the same category as perfect/done/solved. That threshhold is not even clearly defined. And it's a can of worms cause anyone can re-define "inaudible for me".

It's fine for someone to say "amps are a solved issues for me". About any device. But to proclaim that "amplification was solved, move along" is quite different. IMO, that's a case of Pauli's not-even-wrong.

Anyway .. mine is not exactly a popular oppinion and it does not have to be .. and not sure what is the topic of this thread but we are surely off :)
Did you know the air distorts, and our ears distort? You need to reconsidered what a solved problem is. Evolution of organisms is full of solved problems that are not perfect.
 

lashto

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Did you know the air distorts, and our ears distort?
like said, lets not even talk about that here ... but you're highly welcome here
You need to reconsidered what a solved problem is. Evolution of organisms is full of solved problems that are not perfect.
thanks for the offer but I would like to keep my definition for perfect/done/solved. I like it much more, e.g. it gives me something to do, wish and think about. The boredom of 'done' is not my cup of tea ... some even call it the science's (only) nightmare.
 
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Robin L

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There are no claims that I know of which describe audio tech as "perfect". It doesn't need to be. It just needs to be good enough to describe the performance of audio equipment ... and it is.



Again you mention the word "perfect" in regards to audio. Can you show me an example - preferably in these pages - where this has occurred?

Thank you. :)

Jim
One thing we should all know for certain - nobody's hearing is perfect. Nobody can hear 40khz, nobody can hear the full extent of 24 bits without losing their hearing. And just about everyone can enjoy music that's been recorded with some audible compromises. Right now, I'm listening to the Nick Drake compilation "Time of No Reply". Some of the tracks are home recordings, but that really makes for little difference, the musical message gets through anyway.
 

lashto

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One thing we should all know for certain - nobody's hearing is perfect. Nobody can hear 40khz, nobody can hear the full extent of 24 bits without losing their hearing.
This being a Science site, such facts should be common knowledge.
But here's one thing which seems to be less known for some reason: sound is not an ears-only experience, it's a full-body experience.
Those 'inaudible' 40 khz will still vibrate some things in your body. And the "full 24 bits" may even kill a human .. but not through the their ears.

And just about everyone can enjoy music that's been recorded with some audible compromises. Right now, I'm listening to the Nick Drake compilation "Time of No Reply". Some of the tracks are home recordings, but that really makes for little difference, the musical message gets through anyway.
one can enjoy music without knowing any of the above stuff .. some say the enjoyment is better in that case :)
 

lashto

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"Solved issue" does not equate to "perfect".
No it does not. For an engineer.

For a scientist, it actually does. And same as 'perfect' and 'done', 'solved' should not belong to a scientist's vocabulary. And least no yet. From a scientific perspective, those words belongs to the not-even-wrong category.

This is a Science site and that is what I expect. But it can also be that I am too "pretentious" :)
 

lashto

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Thanks for the compliment. Been called that before and I liked it so much, I added it to my profile
Yes, this is a technical/science site, but it's not purely for the sake of it!
For you. For me, that is what I enjoy the most about science: the pure sake of it... just another matter of taste.

And this thread could hardly be any more offtopic. I'll go to sleep before it 'explodes' :)
 

Ron Texas

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Sunjam is a board certified flat-earther. Don't need to believe me. Just take a look at his signature, and check out his ' Debunk the "Monty's video" ' post at his blog. You'll then know what the core ASRers are against. Totally unbelievable :facepalm:
I thought everyone knew the earth was flat, LOL.

Truth be told the hobby isn't a scam, but there are lots of ways to get scammed. One of the benefits of ASR is one may educate themselves in what properly engineered audio gear is, and what things are utter nonsense.
 

DMill

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Of course it's a scam, but what would we do if we listened to the science facts and stop buying stuff we love? it means death for the hobby.
A scam implies that there is misinformation. A McIntosh amp is rivaled/even bettered by lesser priced competitors but so long as it performs to published spec, I do not consider it a scam in any way.
 

Anton D

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I'm really tying to come up with other hobbies where people who participate in the hobby call it a scam.
 

robh36062

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Any hobby can be turned into a scam. All it takes is for a less than honest person to tap into the pursuer's passion and use it to leverage or take advantage of that person.

Rob :)
 
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