ATC speakers / Monitors

[tuga]

View attachment 261565
Compared to other highly regarded speakers

The two plots are not really comparable, unfortunately.

 

[Chrise36]

The two plots are not really comparable, unfortunately.

We dont have much of ATC from Klippel to compare than this

 

[tuga]

View attachment 262028
We dont have much of ATC from Klippel to compare than this

Still not comparable. The time scale on this one 4ms, on the Kef's it's 14ms.

A pity really, it shouldn't be too difficult to standardise these plots the way Stereophile do theirs...

 

[Avp1]

Still not comparable. The time scale on this one 4ms, on the Kef's it's 14ms.

A pity really, it shouldn't be too difficult to standardise these plots the way Stereophile do theirs...

These two pictures show better results from ATC. KEF has much longer resonant trails. Look at second graph at 5 ms point. Then compare it with what you see at 4 ms for ATC.

 

[ctrl]

These two pictures show better results from ATC. KEF has much longer resonant trails. Look at second graph at 5 ms point. Then compare it with what you see at 4 ms for ATC.

You have to pay attention to the scaling, in the ATC diagram it is 20dB and in the KEF it is the usual 30dB and a reasonable time window.

Therefore, you can't really compare the diagrams.

If both diagrams were presented as sonograms, it might be possible to make a very rough comparison.


Here an example for the difference between -30dB and -20dB attenuation and -30dB as CSD sonogram:

 

[tuga]

These two pictures show better results from ATC. KEF has much longer resonant trails. Look at second graph at 5 ms point. Then compare it with what you see at 4 ms for ATC.

I don't see it as clear cut as you do.
If you compare Sthereophile's CSD of the LS50 Meta and the SCM7v3 I am inclined to state the opposite:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-meta-loudspeaker-measurements

https://www.stereophile.com/content/atv-scm7-v3-loudspeaker-measurements

You need identical scales in graphs to make them comparable and useful.

 

[DSJR]

With regards to the humped up response of the 19 and 20 model and also my mistake in not identifying the SCM16 (A?) which I never knew existed (I do know the T16 with front port however), I submit this article about the infamous Yamaha NS10.

https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/assetlibrary/n/ns10m.pdf

At the end, there's a series of on-axis plots of a number of small monitors from twenty years back including the ATC 20ASL pro's which I had for a short time and which measure similarly to the 19V1 annihilated here (the active 20 had a bass-lift control though which is better calibrated in the conventional shape current version and there's also a proper sensitivity adjustment/switch if I see the rear pic better). Even the fondly remembered Harbeth designed HHB 'Circle' models tested had an upper mid lift too. Many of these were used in small studios (home or otherwise) and perhaps placed tight to the wall behind them?

 

[YSC]

With regards to the humped up response of the 19 and 20 model and also my mistake in not identifying the SCM16 (A?) which I never knew existed (I do know the T16 with front port however), I submit this article about the infamous Yamaha NS10.

https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/assetlibrary/n/ns10m.pdf

At the end, there's a series of on-axis plots of a number of small monitors from twenty years back including the ATC 20ASL pro's which I had for a short time and which measure similarly to the 19V1 annihilated here (the active 20 had a bass-lift control though which is better calibrated in the conventional shape current version and there's also a proper sensitivity adjustment/switch if I see the rear pic better). Even the fondly remembered Harbeth designed HHB 'Circle' models tested had an upper mid lift too. Many of these were used in small studios (home or otherwise) and perhaps placed tight to the wall behind them?

It could be, or as most likely, music production at that era just don’t focus on bass content as most of not all consumer speakers of the era didn’t have bass at reasonable reproduction levels. So monitors being bass lacking won’t have much of an issue for the work to be done?

 

[Avp1]

It could be, or as most likely, music production at that era just don’t focus on bass content as most of not all consumer speakers of the era didn’t have bass at reasonable reproduction levels. So monitors being bass lacking won’t have much of an issue for the work to be done?

In 1970s and early 1980s 12 or 15 inch bass drivers were common in mainstream speakers. Small monitors really became common in the era of headphone listening, which started with proliferation of Walkman.

 

[Digi]

The V shaped ATC aren't magical :/

Hi, Would you say that ATC SCM 19A are V shaped in sound? Which in your opinion is the better of the two speakers between ATC SCM19A and 40A? Thanks.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Hi, Would you say that ATC SCM 19A are V shaped in sound? Which in your opinion is the better of the two speakers between ATC SCM19A and 40A? Thanks.

I can '' found '' only one graph, the 40a looks very fine...if you like that well done ''W'' sounds signature it's fine

edit: This graph IS FROM THE SCM40A, it says scm40 but the image is not complete. I cannot post the fully pdf.


*thanks testberichte / stereoplay*

 

[Digi]

Surely the ATC boys just split the signal and feed it to some amps, then into the speakers. As far as i can tell they don't use DSP or anything advanced to split or massage the signals into shape. Maybe you could do a better job with a measurement microphone and some DSP skill?

Besides, the SCM20ASL looks not very nice, compared to the SCM19 v2. Also only two ways, don't you want to have the big mid dome?


Seattle. Just send him a message, if you need money for shipping/packaging/fuel just ask here, i can help, maybe others can too.
@hardisj (Erins Audio Corner) has a Klippel too, he is in North Alabama.

Hi, Can you help? My listening space measures 19.5ft long x 11.5ft wide x 10-14ft high. Which in your opinion is the better of the two speakers between ATC SCM19A and 40A in this space for all genres of music? Can I use a pair of SCM19A with a subwoofer and get better results than the 40A? Thanks in advance.

 

[Digi]

I can '' found '' only one graph, the 40a looks very fine...

*thanks testberichte / stereoplay*

Thanks, seen a review on YouTube where the reviewer was not too happy with tweeter on the SCM40. I am wondering if it is any different on the 40A?

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Thanks, seen a review on YouTube where the reviewer was not too happy with tweeter on the SCM40. I am wondering if it is any different on the 40A?

The SCM40 MK2 is like the 40A.

The SCM40 is the old one as fair as I know.

 

[Avp1]

Hi, Can you help? My listening space measures 19.5ft long x 11.5ft wide x 10-14ft high. Which in your opinion is the better of the two speakers between ATC SCM19A and 40A in this space for all genres of music? Can I use a pair of SCM19A with a subwoofer and get better results than the 40A? Thanks in advance.

SCM50ASL is what you need. Probably SCM100ASL will be still suitable.

 

[Digi]

Within the next few weeks I will be taking some active 40’s in part-ex , I could run some un-sophisticated measurements if any one here is interested?
Perhaps set them up next to the customers 8Cs and compare plots?
Keith

Hi Keith, Have you taken measurements on ATC's SCM40A and what is your opinion on these? How do you compare SCM19A to SCm40A for all genres of music? Thanks.

 

[dfuller]

Looks like ATC is finally updating the SCM25s with their in-house tweeter. They seem to have modified the tweeter faceplate to make it fit in that small cabinet... Hopefully the dispersion behavior is improved somewhat from the slightly deeper waveguide loading on their in-house tweeter.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Looks like ATC is finally updating the SCM25s with their in-house tweeter. They seem to have modified the tweeter faceplate to make it fit in that small cabinet... Hopefully the dispersion behavior is improved somewhat from the slightly deeper waveguide loading on their in-house tweeter.

About 9000€ a pair. Me:

 

[Purité Audio]

Hi Keith, Have you taken measurements on ATC's SCM40A and what is your opinion on these? How do you compare SCM19A to SCm40A for all genres of music? Thanks.

Digi, sorry didn’t see your question, I have I always encourage potential customers to keep their current speakers in situ, then I measure their set up with whatever design they wished to compare, ( predominantly D&D8cs) then we look at both sets of measurements.
The 40’s aren’t bad speakers add and integrate a sub they will be more than adequate for most.
Keith

 

[WillBrink]

Looks like ATC is finally updating the SCM25s with their in-house tweeter. They seem to have modified the tweeter faceplate to make it fit in that small cabinet... Hopefully the dispersion behavior is improved somewhat from the slightly deeper waveguide loading on their in-house tweeter.

Boy would I like to hear those!