ATC speakers / Monitors

[Chrise36]

If you were to build a new speaker with the ATC mid what would you choose for tweeter:
1.RAAL 70-20
2.34mm silk tweeter eg WAVECOR https://audioxpress.com/article/Test-Bench-Wavecor-TW030WA13-14-Neodymium-Tweeters
or CIARE
3. something else
and why?

 

[Ilkless]

If you were to build a new speaker with the ATC mid what would you choose for tweeter:
1.RAAL 70-20
2.34mm silk tweeter eg WAVECOR https://audioxpress.com/article/Test-Bench-Wavecor-TW030WA13-14-Neodymium-Tweeters
or CIARE
3. something else
and why?

I would discard a midrange driver with such an oversized motor and flange that it can't be used with a sane centre-to-centre spacing for the size of the radiating surface, because it's a 3-inch dome with the footprint of a 7-inch driver.

 

[Chrise36]

I would discard a midrange driver with such an oversized motor and flange that it can't be used with a sane centre-to-centre spacing for the size of the radiating surface, because it's a 3-inch dome with the footprint of a 7-inch driver.

Until i hear something better and affordable to me this is my choice.

 

[goat76]

I would discard a midrange driver with such an oversized motor and flange that it can't be used with a sane centre-to-centre spacing for the size of the radiating surface, because it's a 3-inch dome with the footprint of a 7-inch driver.

Yes, these are speakers for MEN, move along!

 

[Deleted member 57422]

I have an offer to buy a set of SCM20 SL at a low price. The passive ones. They seem quite old and don't seem to have the newest tweeter. I couldn't make the difference about the woofer as I'm not knowledgeable about those units. Please see picture attached.

I have 2 question if someone could help. That would be really appreciated.

On the ATC website, they mention a recommended amplifier of 75 to 300 watts at 8 ohm. I found the Buckeye Hypex NC502MP 2 channel rated at 350 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Would that be overkill? Is it a good amp to match with those? Sorry to ask but I'm new to this Passive Monitor + Amp thing and don't have unlimited budget. I read a bit about the Yamaha pc2002 and the Avantone CLA-400 which would also be in my(extended) budget but this HypeX small foot print would definitely be way better if it can match with those aforementioned. It is also quite cheaper. As a side note, those would be fed by my UA Apollo Twin-X

I read a lot of review saying how much the old tweeter of the 1st iteration and the new tweeter are night and day.

I'm hoping to be able to invest in those monitors to be my ''end game'' monitors for critical listening in a very small room (14ft x10ft x8ft) decently acoustically treated.

Wil I be missing a lot of details with those old tweeters?Also, are the woofers also been changed on the newest model? Again, is that a huge upgrade or would I be OK with those old woofers?

I heard that those monitors make bad music sound very bad and that to me is exactly what I'm looking to get. Something that will scream at me when something is wrong.

I currently have the APS Aeon2 in my small room and as much as I love them, I feel I need something more detailed and revealing. Something more clinical. I'm definitely not looking for music enjoyment here.

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[DSJR]

The response will be fairly similar to the 19V1 that were annihilated here a while back. Used close to wall behind in a small room, the bass they do reproduce is tight and clean, BUT they'll need shedloads of power to really come alive compared to other models which I feel may have caught up and maybe overtaken them now. The tweeters may well be upgradable without baffle surgery.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

The response will be fairly similar to the 19V1 that were annihilated here a while back. Used close to wall behind in a small room, the bass they do reproduce is tight and clean, BUT they'll need shedloads of power to really come alive compared to other models which I feel may have caught up and maybe overtaken them now. The tweeters may well be upgradable without baffle surgery.

So if I feed them a 350 watts per channel when they are recommended for 300 watts per channel max, wouldn't it be enough?

Reading your review comparing them to their hi-fi line, I'm wondering if that's what I'm looking for.

 

[YSC]

So if I feed them a 350 watts per channel when they are recommended for 300 watts per channel max, wouldn't it be enough?

Reading your review comparing them to their hi-fi line, I'm wondering if that's what I'm looking for.

in theory, yes, but if it ended up not the sound you are looking for it's likely not the amp causing it

 

[Avp1]

I have an offer to buy a set of SCM20 SL at a low price. The passive ones. They seem quite old and don't seem to have the newest tweeter. I couldn't make the difference about the woofer as I'm not knowledgeable about those units. Please see picture attached.

I have 2 question if someone could help. That would be really appreciated.

On the ATC website, they mention a recommended amplifier of 75 to 300 watts at 8 ohm. I found the Buckeye Hypex NC502MP 2 channel rated at 350 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Would that be overkill? Is it a good amp to match with those? Sorry to ask but I'm new to this Passive Monitor + Amp thing and don't have unlimited budget. I read a bit about the Yamaha pc2002 and the Avantone CLA-400 which would also be in my(extended) budget but this HypeX small foot print would definitely be way better if it can match with those aforementioned. It is also quite cheaper. As a side note, those would be fed by my UA Apollo Twin-X

I read a lot of review saying how much the old tweeter of the 1st iteration and the new tweeter are night and day.

I'm hoping to be able to invest in those monitors to be my ''end game'' monitors for critical listening in a very small room (14ft x10ft x8ft) decently acoustically treated.

Wil I be missing a lot of details with those old tweeters?Also, are the woofers also been changed on the newest model? Again, is that a huge upgrade or would I be OK with those old woofers?

I heard that those monitors make bad music sound very bad and that to me is exactly what I'm looking to get. Something that will scream at me when something is wrong.

I currently have the APS Aeon2 in my small room and as much as I love them, I feel I need something more detailed and revealing. Something more clinical. I'm definitely not looking for music enjoyment here.

Thanks a lot for your help.

View attachment 269745

For room of your size you need to look at SCM25A and have an option to add a pair of subs down the road. I would not touch passive ATC, more so when they are that old. If you ask me - real ATC values start with SCM45A for near field and SCM50A for mid-field use. I used to have a room of similar size to yours. I managed to get excellent results from a pair of B&W 802D driven by Bryston amp. Small room does not mean it should be furnished with small speakers.

 

[INFINITY_IRS_V]

Short answer: they measure poorly, which makes them unsuitable for use as monitors (a monitor needs to give you the truth).

Ah ya, measure poorly mmm maybe; BUT sound Fantastic!! I would love to have a set of ATC speakers!
Just poor, Infinity, line source, dipole, ribbon transducers Steves, two cents worth.

 

[INFINITY_IRS_V]

Here's one for Amir, measure a sonicap sonically against a standard capacitor , any significant amount of difference???

I promise you that there is a great deal of sound difference using your ears !!!

 

[Deleted member 57422]

in theory, yes, but if it ended up not the sound you are looking for it's likely not the amp causing it

Do you have any experience with the SCM20PSL or that was just a comment on your trust in the Buckeye Hypex NC502MP?

 

[Deleted member 57422]

For room of your size you need to look at SCM25A and have an option to add a pair of subs down the road. I would not touch passive ATC, more so when they are that old. If you ask me - real ATC values start with SCM45A for near field and SCM50A for mid-field use. I used to have a room of similar size to yours. I managed to get excellent results from a pair of B&W 802D driven by Bryston amp. Small room does not mean it should be furnished with small speakers.

While I would love to be able to afford the new 25A with the SCM20 MK2 tweeter integrated, I cannot afford to spend 10K$ on a set of monitors. This is twice my budget.
The SCM20PSL I have seen would lead me to half my budget including the amp.

You are not the first person telling me to stay away from Passive ATC's. I wonder why.

 

[goat76]

While I would love to be able to afford the new 25A with the SCM20 MK2 tweeter integrated, I cannot afford to spend 10K$ on a set of monitors. This is twice my budget.
The SCM20PSL I have seen would lead me to half my budget including the amp.

You are not the first person telling me to stay away from Passive ATC's. I wonder why.

I find no fault with my passive SCM40s, they sounds great.

If you think you can resell the 20s without loss I think you should try them out. The not so good part is buying the amp if you don't like the speakers, maybe you can borrow the amp as a home demo.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

I find no fault with my passive SCM40s, they sounds great.

If you think you can resell the 20s without loss I think you should try them out. The not so good part is buying the amp if you don't like the speakers, maybe you can borrow the amp as a home demo.

The amp seems to be well regarded amongst the Hi-fi community. I'm pretty sure I could resell it fast on one of those canadian used hi-fi classified website.

The SCM20 SL I'm looking at are for sale since June 2021. He's asking1800$ USD for them. The Buckeye Hypex NC502MP is 759$ USD. Thats 2559$ total + Shipping.

I found a few SCM20ASL MK2 for sale for 4300$ USD + Shipping.

I'm wondering if this Passive / Amp venture is worth me risking 2600$ or if I'm better spending 1700$ more and be done with it.

In the end, I don't seem to have anything to gain from those passive model as far as I understand. The active ones seems to be well regarded. I just don't want to send money down the drain. Especially because that is a few months savings.

 

[DSJR]

While I would love to be able to afford the new 25A with the SCM20 MK2 tweeter integrated, I cannot afford to spend 10K$ on a set of monitors. This is twice my budget.
The SCM20PSL I have seen would lead me to half my budget including the amp.

You are not the first person telling me to stay away from Passive ATC's. I wonder why.

It's like this I feel. Having held the massive cone/dome/coil assembly of the 20 drive unit (is the 19 a non-SL version?) in my hands, I can tell you it's a rather heavy thing compared to conventional cone-coil assemblies. The short coil-long gap arrangement also loses a hell of a lot of efficiency too. To properly support this heavy assembly, the suspension needs to be VERY taut to prevent sagging (my 20ASL pros did suffer a sagging cone after several years and so I inverted the driver in an attempt to 'fix' it).

The 20's can be used by a traditional non-foo 100WPC amp, but if you like some headroom and overall level as I once did, said amp WILL clip. I used a freshly updated Quad 405-2 sat between the speakers with longer interconnects as recommended by ATC and it used to get stressed as well as bloody hot when driven in 'spirited' fashion into these (almost too hot to touch) - sounded great though... I replaced it with an AVI S2000 80WPC stereo amp which sounded the same and ran stone cold most of the time, barely getting tepid if pushed for long periods. Next were the 140W AVI S2000 mono's which went louder and again, absolutely no stress at all. later, I was able to use SCM20's with the AVI 200+WPC S2000 model (the 17" or so deep one) and that was effortless.

Fast forward to today and I really wonder if the Neumann KH150 wouldn't do it all a lot better? They're three grand the pair though and have amps and so on built in, but used 20's are usually half that and you need to buy an amp for them (possibly a European sourced Hypex or Purifi based power amp?).

I doubt many if any here have done it, but I seriously wonder if a pair of 11's or pro 12's wouldn't now be a better balanced and easier to drive speaker than the 19 or 20SL passives which are over thirty three years old basic designs? I heard the 11's driven by a Naim streamer (so rather low powered in today's terms) and they were as happy as anything and had some bass too The driver seems more 'normal' in configuration..

If your room is large though, as said above, you're not going to get much out of any small box no matter how hard you work it! The rules of a good big speaker being better than any small one still apply, even in these days of active drive and DSP and so on (the distortion below 80Hz is always HUGE on small hard working drivers and this must affect the midrange too if a sub isn't used - why use a sub when a bigger speaker might integrate it all better?). GOOD big speakers cost money though and I apologise for that, but you don't get owt for nowt - and that's something I've learned the hard way in life

 

[Adi777]

Probably in a month or two I'll be listening to ATC. I hope the 150A Pro.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

It's like this I feel. Having held the massive cone/dome/coil assembly of the 20 drive unit (is the 19 a non-SL version?) i n my hands, I can tell you it's a rather heavy thing compared to conventional cone-coil assemblies. the short coil-long gap arrangement also loses a hell of a lot of efficiency too. To properly support this heavy assembly, the suspension needs to be VERY taut to prevent sagging (my 20ASL pros did suffer a sagging cone after several years and so I inverted the driver in an attempt to 'fix' it).

The 20's can be used by a traditional non-foo 100WPC amp, but if you like some headroom and overall level as I once did, said amp WILL clip. I used a freshly updated Quad 405-2 sat between the speakers with longer interconnects as recommended by ATC and it used to get stressed as well as bloody hot when driven in 'spirited' fashion into these (almost too hot to touch) - sounded great though... I replaced it with an AVI S2000 80WPC stereo amp which sounded the same and ran stone cold most of the time, barely getting tepid if pushed for long periods. Next were the 140W AVI S2000 mono's which went louder and again, absolutely no stress at all. later, I was able to use SCM20's with the AVI 200+WPC S2000 model (the 17" or so deep one) and that was effortless.

Fast forward to today and I really wonder if the Neumann KH150 wouldn't do it all a lot better? They're three grand the pair though and have amps and so on built in, but used 20's are usually half that and you need to buy an amp for them (possibly a European sourced Hypex or Purifi based power amp?).

I doubt many of any here have done it, but I seriously wonder if a pair of 11's or pro 12's wouldn't now be a better balanced and easier to drive speaker than the 19 or 20SL passives which are over thirty three years old basic designs? I heard the 11's driven by a Naim streamer (so rather low powered in today's terms) and they were as happy as anything and had some bass too The driver seems more 'normal' in configuration..

If your room is large though, as said above, you're not going to get much out of any small box no matter how hard you work it! The rules of a good big speaker being better than any small one still apply, even in these days of active drive and DSP and so on (the distortion below 80Hz is always HUGE on small hard working drivers and this must affect the midrange too if a sub isn't used - why use a sub when a bigger speaker might integrate it all better?). GOOD big speakers cost money though and I apologise for that, but you don't get owt for nowt - and that's something I've learned the hard way in life

I totally understand your point.

I sadly don't earn enough to even think of spending that much money on a set of Studio monitors. If I stretch a bit, I can get away with a used set of SCM20ASL but that's about it. Maybe a month or two later I can add an entry level sealed cabinet subwoofer to relieve the stress out of those SCM20ASL. Something like the the Dynaudio 9s or the Adam Audio Sub8 come to mind.

But again, my room is very small and my APS Aeon2 really showed me what happen when there's too much energy displacement in my room. Everything start to be a mess in the mid lows and honestly, this is exactly what I would like to remedy with those. I also need to integrate some triangular Corner Bass chunk on both facing corner walls and corner ceiling to walls on each side. I currently have 9 panels of Roxul RX80 , 4 inch thick, 2 feet x 4 feet with a 4 inch gap between the wall and the panels. It really smooth out everything from 400 hz and up but the mid lows and lows are a complete mess. Aeon2 being a ported monitors with a known port resonance at 275hz, this doesnt really surprised me and it extend very low but I wouldn't call it tight in the low end in any ways. I mean, it's not a bad set of monitors for a full range but I'm looking for more definition. That's basically my quest here. More details in the mid lows especially. But they are very musical. They just lack the definition.

See that horible dip and bump at 110hz and 140hz, that's my desk reflection. I also didnt have a cloud when I made that measurement. ( I now do have a cloud (4ft x 4ft ) but a cheap one made out of safensound. )

 

[Chrise36]

I have an offer to buy a set of SCM20 SL at a low price. The passive ones. They seem quite old and don't seem to have the newest tweeter. I couldn't make the difference about the woofer as I'm not knowledgeable about those units. Please see picture attached.

I have 2 question if someone could help. That would be really appreciated.

On the ATC website, they mention a recommended amplifier of 75 to 300 watts at 8 ohm. I found the Buckeye Hypex NC502MP 2 channel rated at 350 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Would that be overkill? Is it a good amp to match with those? Sorry to ask but I'm new to this Passive Monitor + Amp thing and don't have unlimited budget. I read a bit about the Yamaha pc2002 and the Avantone CLA-400 which would also be in my(extended) budget but this HypeX small foot print would definitely be way better if it can match with those aforementioned. It is also quite cheaper. As a side note, those would be fed by my UA Apollo Twin-X

I read a lot of review saying how much the old tweeter of the 1st iteration and the new tweeter are night and day.

I'm hoping to be able to invest in those monitors to be my ''end game'' monitors for critical listening in a very small room (14ft x10ft x8ft) decently acoustically treated.

Wil I be missing a lot of details with those old tweeters?Also, are the woofers also been changed on the newest model? Again, is that a huge upgrade or would I be OK with those old woofers?

I heard that those monitors make bad music sound very bad and that to me is exactly what I'm looking to get. Something that will scream at me when something is wrong.

I currently have the APS Aeon2 in my small room and as much as I love them, I feel I need something more detailed and revealing. Something more clinical. I'm definitely not looking for music enjoyment here.

Thanks a lot for your help.

View attachment 269745

This is a very worn speaker imho. Wait for better offers or look at new pair from other brands. The tweeter has not the same extension as the newer ones. The bass is not the typical boom bass. if you want that sound you need a sub.The NC502 is overkill.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

I'm definitely not looking at the SCM20 for its bass extension.