Ascend Sierra Luna Duo Center/Main Speaker Review

[Stump909]

My home theater consists of all Ascend speakers (though I do not have this particular speaker). One of the main reasons I purchased from Ascend was because they were one of the few manufacturers that published measurements. So while I’m not going to turn around and sell everything, it is a bit disappointing to see such huge differences in Amir’s measurements compared to what Ascend has published.

I’ve spoken with Dave Fabrikant a few times, and by all accounts he is a decent guy, so I doubt this is anything intentional...but it has made me realize not all published measurements are created equal.

Agreed. All this is rather crazy considering how well the Sierra-2 and Horizon held up. By all measurements here, and Amir's subjective reviews, it's a great speaker. So is it the form factor introducing all these issues? Either way, it's concerning how the Ascend measurements have shifted from reassurance to skepticism. It also doesn't help that these smaller 'Luna' products aren't really more affordable.

 

[ctrl]

Wow! The speakers are actually even worse than the Luna Mini. Now the BR-Port resonances are completely out of control - Fire the loudspeaker engineer, he hates his work!

If you look at the horizontal angular frequency responses normalized to the axis frequency response, the loudspeaker would not be extremely bad in directivity without the misconstrued BR ports.

Now we add 1% third order harmonic distortion (HD3) at 500Hz@86dB to the mess. This should already be audible, since a single tone or narrow band masker will not mask this anymore.

And again it says in the product description:

We dare say it, but you simply cannot find this type of quality control, care and pride from products that are fully assembled and tested in overseas manufacturing facilities.

Hire some people from overseas to do the product development

 

[richard12511]

"All measurements taken using DRA Lab’s MLSSA system with RCAI, calibrated ACO Pacific 7012 ½” free field measurement microphone with associated pre-amp and power supply and an automated Outline turntable "

Seems like an older measurement method, any info on the accuracy of this vs. Klippel NFS? They measure at 1 m.

We have anechoic chamber data corroborating these NFS results, so I'm convinced it's quite accurate. The MLSSA seems to be a bit off at this point. Maybe it has trouble with ports?

 

[RichB]

He doesn't indicate the key thing which is where the speaker was measured and how he handled low frequency response/reflections. The Mic and software are not important bits. But yes, it does seem like old software and such given the look of the graphs.

Unless anechoic chamber was used (highly doubtful), the accuracy is far, far worse than Klippel NFS.

Here are the posted measurements.
Something is very wrong here, the Ascend measurements look nothing like those performed by Amir.

- Rich

 

[richard12511]

Here are the posted measurements.
Something is very wrong here, the Ascend measurements look nothing like those performed by Amir.

View attachment 91311
View attachment 91312

- Rich

You can see the general shape is similar(batman, or "w" shape), but it's very flattened, to the point of being quite misleading.

 

[GimeDsp]

This makes me angry. Very bad look for US made stuff.

 

[ctrl]

The MLSSA seems to be a bit off at this point. Maybe it has trouble with ports?

Even if a anechoic chamber is available, the frequency response of the low frequency range has to be determined and calculated individually over several near field measurements. This is not difficult, but you just have to read up on how it is done.
Quote myself from the other Ascend thread:

This can be done easily. All you need is a simple measuring system (optimal is to measure "phase correct", e.g. via dual channel measurement).

Near-field measurement of all ports (<0.01m distance), near-field measurement of all woofers, after sound pressure correction of the sound sources based on their radiating area, the corrected measurements are summed. Performing the baffle step correction on the summed measurement - that's it. With large enclosures you can also set appropriate delays to improve the validity to high frequencies (in this case always <400Hz).

Sounds complicated, but it is not. The results correspond quite well with reality (as represented by the NFS) - <400Hz.

Amir is not a professional loudspeaker developer, but even his near-field measurements of the BR-Port show the problems immediately (@amirm I mean no offense ).
If you take Amir's BR-Port measurement and add a baffle step correction, you will immediately notice that the unwanted midrange resonances at 600Hz, 1000Hz and 1800Hz are as high or higher than the wanted fundamental resonance of the BR-Port (Helmholtz-Resonator).

 

[Helicopter]

This makes me angry. Very bad look for US made stuff.

Oh they are little and it is only their ported speakers we have seen do really badly. It doesn't mean their other speakers will have these problems or Salk speakers or many many other US makers small and bigger. as @richard12511 stated, they may have had trouble measuring ported speakers. That doesn't mean all US manufacturers will have trouble with all speakers.

Admittedly, they must have known the speakers had problems, and I can't imagine where they got the FR curve they published. Agree that part does not look good for this firm.

 

[GimeDsp]

Oh they are little and it is only their ported speakers we have seen do really badly. It doesn't mean their other speakers will have these problems or Salk speakers or many many other US makers small and bigger. as @richard12511 stated, they may have had trouble measuring ported speakers. That doesn't mean all US manufacturers will have trouble with all speakers.

I understand that. My current made in USA purshases.

Audiocontrol measurment mic---cam with a VERY bad cal file and the company was unrespnsive.
Schitt Loki EQ--- Both units they sent me had channel drop outs on start up and after and sounded very

Why should people support USA companies when there is dishonestry and extreme lack of QC.
I want to support USA companies but I can only spend so much time and money on failed and bad products.

 

[MZKM]

Here are the posted measurements.
Something is very wrong here, the Ascend measurements look nothing like those performed by Amir.

View attachment 91311
View attachment 91312

- Rich

I mean even their own measurements don't have consistency. The on-axis in the pure on-axis graph shows a peak @2kHz, the on-axis in the multiple angles graph shows the peak @1800Hz or so.

 

[GimeDsp]

BTW, how do members feel when their stuff tests badly?
Hopefully they can still enjoy the stuff or return them somehow?

 

[GimeDsp]

I mean even their own measurements don't have consistency. The on-axis in the pure on-axis graph shows a peak @2kHz, the on-axis in the multiple angles graph shows the peak @1800Hz or so.

Good catch! somethings up.

 

[MZKM]

Good catch! somethings up.

It could be different units and that would be chalked up to driver/parts consistency.
I highly doubt it though.

BTW, how do members feel when their stuff tests badly?
Hopefully they can still enjoy the stuff or return them somehow?

I mean, if Amir is saying it makes his playlist sound like crap, I would assume the owners feel that way too (unless they are used as surrounds, as you don’t critically listen to those). I own some gear that doesn’t measure great (usually I got them for a steal of a deal used or on sale though), but I can still enjoy them. If I can get lost in the music in my car over FM radio, I can enjoy most setups.

 

[Worth Davis]

This is so off im surprised. There website is not close to these results. Glad I never bought anything from them.

 

[Audio Monkey]

I sent the Ascend Horizon for testing and the results generally aligned with my expectations. I am very surprised by the review of the Luna and Luna Duo. The Towers with RAAL are great and should perform similarly to the Horizon. Don't cross them off your list based upon the Lunas outcome. I was actually hoping to see the Sierra-2EX measured. Does anyone know if the Luna and Sierra-2EX share the same tweeter?

 

[BillH]

I have the Sierra 2-EX and no regrets. Some threads here find them better than the comparable Revel products. Also, this isn't company wide, the 2's reviewed and measured quite well. I have both the M105 and 2-EX and, while there is a small price difference, I'd sell the Revels first.
I'm surprised Ascend missed this. If your port tube wasn't fully attached or fell off, would that explain something as broken as this?

 

[Helicopter]

BTW, how do members feel when their stuff tests badly?
Hopefully they can still enjoy the stuff or return them somehow?

I will not return it unless it is defective. I suppose if this were mine I might consider that because of the advertised performance.

Otherwise if Amir shows me something that confirms a product is not going to suit my needs, I will unload it another way but not return it.

I do not like returning stuff in general because it often harms sellers and can harm other buyers.

No guarantee member will already have an impression because sometimes it makes the most sense to drop ship.

 

[GimeDsp]

I will not return it unless it is defective. I suppose if this were mine I might consider that because of the advertised performance.

Otherwise if Amir shows me something that confirms a product is not going to suit my needs, I will unload it another way but not return it.

I do not like returning stuff in general because it often harms sellers and can harm other buyers.

No guarantee member will already have an impression because sometimes it makes the most sense to drop ship.

That makes a lot of sense.
Perhaps Ascend will work with customers on a solution to fix the issue.
Foam in port?
Different absortion in speaker?
Crossover mod?

 

[Kachda]

That makes a lot of sense.
Perhaps Ascend will work with customers on a solution to fix the issue.
Foam in port?
Different absortion in speaker?
Crossover mod?

Highly unlikely. The things above are basically a different speaker completely, can't see them being able to afford to change all the Lunas.

 

[ROOSKIE]

I will not return it unless it is defective. I suppose if this were mine I might consider that because of the advertised performance.

Otherwise if Amir shows me something that confirms a product is not going to suit my needs, I will unload it another way but not return it.

I do not like returning stuff in general because it often harms sellers and can harm other buyers.

No guarantee member will already have an impression because sometimes it makes the most sense to drop ship.

I feel the same way.