Arcam AV40 AV Processor Review

[audioBliss]

0dB on the relative scale should always equal reference level IF the system is calibrated. If it's not calibrated the numbers don't mean anything. And reference level is average 85dBC per channel given the movie is mixed correctly. But this is average and per channel, the peak per channel will be 105dBC expect the LFE channel which is 10dB higher at 115dbC. But how this sort of all works is that since you also have bass management all bass from each channel is also redirected to the subwoofer. There is bass and LFE bass. So in a maxed out system (many speakers) the bass levels could exceed 120dB. I can't remember the numbers exactly now. Also sometimes movies are mixed really hot.

Typically one would not play at reference level in a normal sized room. Reference level in a typical room people have in a house is often considered to be -10dB on the volume control which would be all numbers above -10. When determining how loud a speaker is playing a pink noise is used. For home applications this pink noise is -30dBFS so that you don't have to calibrate at such high sound levels. In the cinema they typically use -20dBFS signals to calibrate since those systems are usually more capable. A louder signal ensures the signal to noise ratio is high so to minimise calibration error.

 

[Krobar]

Gosh, I’m really hoping AudioControl makes the correct fixes to these things. They make measurement mics and interfaces so hopefully they have some standard for quality. Subjectively I can say that I really like their amps, but haven’t heard a source component yet. Im really starting to wonder if one needs to get a Trinnov to have a “quality” experience.

Marc Alexander posted some SINAD result for an Altitude 16 at 1.5V on AVS; it only achieved 86db SINAD whilst the HTP-1 managed 95dB sinad, the Lyngdorf MP-50 performed the same as the Altitude.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...lith-htp-1-owners-thread-54.html#post59242736

 

[MC_RME]

Here is our DAC reconstruction filter:
View attachment 62941

I don't mind the curve but why is the attenuation just 60 dB?

I wonder if this has the same reason as the Multitone test issue. Try this test with white noise at -4 dBFS and the real filter design might be shown.

 

[audioBliss]

Marc Alexander posted some SINAD result for an Altitude 16 at 1.5V on AVS; it only achieved 86db SINAD whilst the HTP-1 managed 95dB sinad, the Lyngdorf MP-50 performed the same as the Altitude.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...lith-htp-1-owners-thread-54.html#post59242736

With ITU-R 468 weighting for the THD+N ratio the MP50 achieved -96dB while the HTP-1 managed only -86dB. What is the significance of this? As I understand it this weighting correlates closer to what we hear.

also there is this https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...lith-htp-1-owners-thread-57.html#post59256678
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...lith-htp-1-owners-thread-57.html#post59256662

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I think that answers the question. The impression made was so impressive, Kal wasn't sure he remembered reviewing it.

That applies to the majority of the stuff I review. Very few are memorable and most of those are for the right reason.

 

[anmpr1]

The acknowledgement of the issues and the effort to fix them by Schiit was enough to literally change my attitude towards the company and its products. Rather that perceiving them as a bunch of clowns with a bad sophomoric sense of humor and weird-looking audio components, I now see them simply as a quirky company with some excellent audio electronics products.

My impression of Schiit is that they are a two man design/marketing operation. Low level with no dealers. They appear to know how to make decent performing products if they care to do so. Being small, they can likely make production changes relatively quickly, in order to solve problems or make mods as needed.

Arcam has a dealer network so they must first and foremost provide enough dealer margin to make the franchise worthwhile. That is Arcam's primary concern. Then, it is up to dealers to convince customers of the product's goodness. You see that in the AudioAdvice blurb--"If you want something pretty good, but not as good as Mac or ML, get the Arcam. If you have more money, we'll sell you the high priced spread and you'll be happier." That's typical dealer shtick--the more dollars you spend the happier you will be.

Arcam is a part of Harman which is a part of Samsung. The multi-national and cross cultural corporate angle probably can't be as easily navigated as the Schiit operation. The Full of Schiit guys can sit at a table and make design changes on a napkin over coffee. And in a month or two (just guessing) those changes can be effected in their small production line. I doubt Arcam can effect those kinds of rapid changes. Also, dealers hate mid-cycle changes. Dealers want to sell what's in their storeroom. If a company changes the product, then customers don't want the 'old' stuff.

Of course all this doesn't answer the question as to why no one is making a decent AV preamp.

 

[Dj7675]

79.5 is the same as -5.5, isn't it? I believe 0dB relative equals 85 dB absolute on the Denon receivers. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

On an Audyssey calibrated system like a Denon, 80 is reference level. A bit from Denon:
https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/337/~/receiver-volume
I have checked this on my X8500 by putting the volume at zero (reference) and changing volume from relative to absolute scale and it shows 80.
Edit: Another plus for the Denon is you can run it at reference level (not that I do) and the performance doesn’t fall apart, such as the NAD T758 (at -6 or louder on the volume)

 

[peng]

I provide a suite of measurements because they all matter. SINAD is a measure of noise+harmonic distortion. It doesn't for example measure jitter. And if distortion is high, then it dominates SINAD so we have to look at dynamic range, etc.

I could have created a table for some of the other measurements but maintaining and defending one is enough effort.

I have started a spreadsheet table, and I know it requires a lot of effort so I am going to limit the table to compare AVRs and integrated amps only. So far I have included only SINAD (will show both 2/4V RCA/XLR and reduced voltage 1-1.2/2-2.4V), DNR, SNR, IMD,Output power, Linearity & Jitter (Comments only). Its a huge amount of work.

Just to show how it will look, below is a shortened one with many columns hidden so it will fit here.

 

[ElNino]

My impression of Schiit is that they are a two man design/marketing operation. Low level with no dealers. They appear to know how to make decent performing products if they care to do so. Being small, they can likely make production changes relatively quickly, in order to solve problems or make mods as needed.

Schiit hired two more engineering staff a while ago... that's around when their products really started to shape up IMHO.

 

[QMuse]

I think that answers the question. The impression made was so impressive, Kal wasn't sure he remembered reviewing it.

Or maybe his memory is getting foggy.

Anyway, this was his conclusion:

"So how did the Rotel RSP-1572 stack up against its competition in the busy $2000 class? It sounded as good as any, and was completely devoid of operational idiosyncrasies or switching noises. It distinguished itself with the delightful simplicity of its operation, which doesn't try to entice the user into meddling with processing controls but still provides all the facilities the user needs. What it lacks is any Internet access or streaming facilities, although the USB port accepts iPods, MP3 players, flash drives, and a conveniently provided Bluetooth dongle. It also lacks automatic room EQ, and some users will have to hire a professional installer to set up its capable parametric EQ. All that suggests to me that the Rotel is a more formidable competitor in the custom-installation sector than in the audiophile/home-theater hobbyist market. On the other hand, those of us who don't mind getting our hands dirty with some measurement tools can have it all with the RSP-1572: great sound and great looks. "

 

[YSC]

There is no research to back "90 dB." There is research that says if distortion products are below 115 dB or so, they are below threshold of hearing (at reference level playback) so can be guaranteed to be inaudible. As a practical matter, the limit for most people is much less than this but we can't put a precise number on it that way.

This is why I like to see performance reach that 115 dB number so that we know transparency is achieved for all content, all people and all playback levels.

Right, I was just saying the 90dB due to a lot of praised hifi stuffs older than 2 decades are mostly around this value, I am sure in controlled pink noise listening test for distortion maybe ppl can go to 110-120db, just in normal music listening I bet ppl are mostly unable to hear significant difference for 90dB+.

What I want to emphasis is whatever architecture is used (dac or amp), with those measuring above average in SINAD usually means the designer is conscious about what he's doing and normally with gears measuring even >100db will shows less problems in other measurements.

 

[Xulonn]

My impression of Schiit is that they are a two man design/marketing operation. Low level with no dealers.

Arcam is a part of Harman which is a part of Samsung.

Great summary of the differences in business models and types of companies, @anmpr1 - should be helpful to some who are not familiar with such things to understand audio companies that vary greatly in size and organization - as well as "personality".

In fact, your post inspired me to start a new thread on the subject...that way I won't take yet another thread off subject.

 

[Dj7675]

I have started a spreadsheet table, and I know it requires a lot of effort so I am going to limit the table to compare AVRs and integrated amps only. So far I have included only SINAD (will show both 2/4V RCA/XLR and reduced voltage 1-1.2/2-2.4V), DNR, SNR, IMD,Output power, Linearity & Jitter (Comments only). Its a huge amount of work.

Just to show how it will look, below is a shortened one with many columns hidden so it will fit here.

Look forward to it and think it can be a valuable resource for people. Having one spot showing the performance at lower voltages is really helpful in my opinion. For example if you look at the SINAD of the Denon X3500 in the main chart it is 74. This would lead you to believe it is a very bad performer. However at 1.4V it is at 96 which is very good (relatively speaking). Having a spreading summarizing this for different units would be very helpful for people shopping a new unit, or in what parameters some of these units actually perform well.

 

[starfly]

Ugh, how hard can it be to get a good performing AVR/AVP? It really does seem like it's best to buy a $500-$1000 AVR from Denon/Marantz/Yamaha and that's the best you can get.

I would be interested in seeing an ASR review of the Yamaha separates (CX-A5200 AVP for example).

 

[tecnogadget]

I would be interested in seeing an ASR review of the Yamaha separates (CX-A5200 AVP for example).

I would be also interested like many other members. Mind that there are actually 3 Yamaha AVP generations with minor changes, aka “features” (CX-A5000, CX-A5100, CX-A5200).

Those have already been test benched by Audioholics, but not as detailed as Amir.

Their results plus other third party measurements scores the CX-A5000 with “ok performance“, CX-A5100 “improved performance” over previous gen, and CX-A5200 “Degraded performance” over the previous gen.

I would skip the 5200 and rather measure the 5100 (Dolby Atmos, DTS X, HDCP 2.2 Input/Output, built-in WiFi, better performance than 5000 and 5200)

 

[starfly]

I would be also interested like many other members. Mind that there are actually 3 Yamaha AVP generations with minor changes, aka “features” (CX-A5000, CX-A5100, CX-A5200).

Those have already been test benched by Audioholics, but not as detailed as Amir.

Their results plus other third party measurements scores the CX-A5000 with “ok performance“, CX-A5100 “improved performance” over previous gen, and CX-A5200 “Degraded performance” over the previous gen.

I would skip the 5200 and rather measure the 5100 (Dolby Atmos, DTS X, HDCP 2.2 Input/Output, built-in WiFi, better performance than 5000 and 5200)

I guess at this point, the best processor reviewed by Amir is the Monoprice one, right? I think I read they recently released a firmware update that's supposed to have improved performance.

Granted, it's a $4k unit, too expensive for me either way.

 

[timg]

I guess at this point, the best processor reviewed by Amir is the Monoprice one, right? I think I read they recently released a firmware update that's supposed to have improved performance.

Granted, it's a $4k unit, too expensive for me either way.

Depends on which measurement you're looking at. If you can live with the base feature set of the HTP-1 and need something that works today, it's currently the best performing 16 channel unit on the market. It should be the default answer for the average 16 channel purchaser.

The Emotiva RMC-1 and it's siblings perform better than the HTP-1 on a handful of tests, but they're still not feature complete or fully stable. Dirac isn't currently released for them, though it's expected to be available before the end of Q2. Some people have no issues with the RMC-1 and its siblings. Others still have pain, but it seems to be less than the Arcam/JBL units at this point. With that said, Emotiva updates are MUCH slower than everyone else and it's likely that the Arcam/JBL units will be feature complete and stable before the Emotiva units.

If Emotiva gets the RMC-1 expansion modules working, it may be the processor to have. ETA on that is likely at least 12 months. If those modules are never released, there's absolutely no reason for anyone to buy a RMC-1. The RMC-1L and XMC-2 will be the better bargain with identical/similar performance at much lower price points. The OSD of these units is basic, but nice.

Tim

 

[Luminous White]

Marc Alexander posted some SINAD result for an Altitude 16 at 1.5V on AVS; it only achieved 86db SINAD whilst the HTP-1 managed 95dB sinad, the Lyngdorf MP-50 performed the same as the Altitude.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...lith-htp-1-owners-thread-54.html#post59242736

Geez man. That’s rough. Perhaps this is just the nature of AV pre pros and receivers. IDK. Subjectively I think the Altitude is awesome because of its spatiality. But I’m learning that a lot of stuff I thought I liked doesn’t measure up. This is an uncomfortable place to be in lol. My speaker taste is probably warped too now that I think about it. I’m almost getting scared of seeing objective testing. Yikes.

 

[LTig]

Geez man. That’s rough. Perhaps this is just the nature of AV pre pros and receivers. IDK. Subjectively I think the Altitude is awesome basically of its spatiality. But I’m learning that a lot of stuff I thought I liked doesn’t measure up. This is an uncomfortable place to be in lol. My speaker taste is probably warped too now that I think about it. I’m almost getting scared of seeing objective testing. Yikes.

Yeah, better not to read any further and enjoy what you have while it lasts.

 

[jhaider]

The real questions are even if the Arcam did offer superb measured performance, would it be worth spending $4.5k on it?

That's a channel count question. Do you have or plan to have 16 channels? If so, it appears the entry price is around $4000.

I would be also interested like many other members. Mind that there are actually 3 Yamaha AVP generations with minor changes, aka “features” (CX-A5000, CX-A5100, CX-A5200).
...
I would skip the 5200 and rather measure the 5100 (Dolby Atmos, DTS X, HDCP 2.2 Input/Output, built-in WiFi, better performance than 5000 and 5200)

Yamaha 5100 is an intriguing option because I think it's the only one that has both Dolby Pro Logic II upmixing and Atmos decoding. Unfortunately YPAO makes it sonically inferior to any SSP with Audyssey (+ app) or Dirac regardless of electrical measurements. Also, read the dimensions before taking one home. With XLR interconnects it is about 20" (500mm) deep!