Arcam AV40 AV Processor Review

[Jonas_h]

@amirm: These reviews are really interesting!

One question: Let's say the JBL SDP-55 measures the same as the Arcam - which is very likely. Where is the "bad" implementation? If using the digital Dante output of the SDP-55 into a pro well-measured D/A converter will that result in better measurements or is the bottleneck inside the Arcam digital processing before any D/A?

 

[amirm]

@amirm: These reviews are really interesting!

One question: Let's say the JBL SDP-55 measures the same as the Arcam - which is very likely. Where is the "bad" implementation? If using the digital Dante output of the SDP-55 into a pro well-measured D/A converter will that result in better measurements or is the bottleneck inside the Arcam digital processing before any D/A?

I am told the SDP-55 has a different DAC so it is not the same implementation. As such, its performance can be different.

Note that Dante doesn't have copy protection. As such, for any HDCP protected video it must limit resolution of audio to 16 bits and sample rates no higher than 48 kHz. 16 bit requirement will force SINAD to around 96 dB so using outboard DAC doesn't help you in that scenario. For normal music which has no copy protection then yes, you could use a better Dante DAC to get around some of the issues here.

I say "some" because there are some signal processing errors such as what we saw in Multi-tone. Those likely will impact external DAC just as well. We will have to see if these can be resolved.

 

[GXAlan]

I am told the SDP-55 has a different DAC so it is not the same implementation. As such, its performance can be different.

Kevin Voecks said “our engineering team in Cambridge, England labored many, many hours to carefully optimize the board layouts for maximum performance and lowest noise in both the JBL and Arcam processors.”
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...surround-sound-processor-33.html#post59441690

The DAC change is confirmed here
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...surround-sound-processor-24.html#post59371796

It is promising that JBL felt the need to change something (so they knew it was bad), but it is concerning that the Arcam shipped the way that it did.

The measurements I have seen on the X8500H don’t seem that impressive with the amps running, but how crazy would it be that the “consumer” brand is beating the audiophile brands?

 

[Jonas_h]

Note that Dante doesn't have copy protection. As such, for any HDCP protected video it must limit resolution of audio to 16 bits and sample rates no higher than 48 kHz. 16 bit requirement will force SINAD to around 96 dB so using outboard DAC doesn't help you in that scenario. For normal music which has no copy protection then yes, you could use a better Dante DAC to get around some of the issues here..

I did not know that - that is a dissapointment! Fixing one issue and introducing a new one.

Wonder if AES output on Trinnov have the same limitations?

 

[Dj7675]

The measurements I have seen on the X8500H don’t seem that impressive with the amps running, but how crazy would it be that the “consumer” brand is beating the audiophile brands?

Have you seen DAC measurements on the X8500? I haven’t seen any.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Have you seen DAC measurements on the X8500? I haven’t seen any.

I think @GXAlan is making a leap of faith that the more expensive X8500 will at least meet the measurement floor of the X3600. It's not a terrible leap, in that you would hope they didn't change something in the flagship model that would hurt performance.

 

[timg]

That's a channel count question. Do you have or plan to have 16 channels? If so, it appears the entry price is around $4000.

Emotiva XMC-2 is $2999 and they sometimes have good sales to get cash back. There are also discount cards out there. Most XMC-2 owners seem to be having good success with their units (more so than the RMC-1 owners), but Dirac isn't functional yet. There's speculation that the upgrades people have bought from the XMC-1 to the XMC-2 are delayed shipping so that they can ship feature complete with Dirac in the box.

Tim

 

[GXAlan]

I think @GXAlan is making a leap of faith that the more expensive X8500 will at least meet the measurement floor of the X3600. It's not a terrible leap, in that you would hope they didn't change something in the flagship model that would hurt performance.

Agreed. There is more “stuff” in an X8500h to add noise and the AL32 upsampling cannot be turned off (except in analog mode). The amps are unlikely to be better in SINAD at 5W. You just get headroom. But being able to turn off all of the amps and not having HDAM should give it good performance.

 

[jomark911]

You don't turn off any amps on 8500h. Or any other Denon.
They are just disconnected from the preamp , and left to idle.

 

[jhaider]

Emotiva XMC-2 is $2999 and they sometimes have good sales to get cash back. There are also discount cards out there. Most XMC-2 owners seem to be having good success with their units (more so than the RMC-1 owners), but Dirac isn't functional yet.

If they ever release a completed processor perhaps it can enter the discussion.

 

[audioBliss]

Why would you buy the XMC-2 or any Emotiva AVR when they have spent years trying to make them work and the latest news is that you need some raspberry pi dongle to get dirac to work which they cannot deliver? A lot of red flags there. I would not take the leap of faith on that one.

 

[TimoJ]

Why would you buy the XMC-2 or any Emotiva AVR when they have spent years trying to make them work and the latest news is that you need some raspberry pi dongle to get dirac to work which they cannot deliver? A lot of red flags there. I would not take the leap of faith on that one.

They just released 1.10 firmware. It's a rewrite and isn't based on the XMC-1 code like the previous (1.90). Remains to be seen how well they did this time.

 

[audioBliss]

They just released 1.10 firmware. It's a rewrite and isn't based on the XMC-1 code like the previous (1.90). Remains to be seen how well they did this time.

Yes we will see, square one in terms of finding bugs, glhf.

 

[Lsc]

Why would you buy the XMC-2 or any Emotiva AVR when they have spent years trying to make them work and the latest news is that you need some raspberry pi dongle to get dirac to work which they cannot deliver? A lot of red flags there. I would not take the leap of faith on that one.

I have the XMC2. Bought it the first day it was released as I didn’t have a pre-pro at the time. Over the last 8 months it has been a pleasure to own. The speed of the menu and switching was slow in the beginning but Emotiva has improved the performance greatly over time and especially over the last couple of months. You don’t have to give it a chance but I’m using it as a front end for my ATI 4002 and Revel F228Be and it’s doing an excellent job. I almost bought the Arcam while losing patience on Dirac - dodged a bullet there.

I also thought at one time that Emotiva was going to completely fail and there processors were never going to get Dirac but thankfully I was wrong. I don’t care what the solution entails meaning if I need to use this raspberry pi which is at no cost to me to get Dirac in my XMC2, then that’s fine.

it’s interesting that I thought perhaps these other companies were going to wipe Emotiva’s processors off the face of this world but based on the current status, looks like Emotiva is starting to get some momentum.

 

[audioBliss]

I have the XMC2. Bought it the first day it was released as I didn’t have a pre-pro at the time. Over the last 8 months it has been a pleasure to own. The speed of the menu and switching was slow in the beginning but Emotiva has improved the performance greatly over time and especially over the last couple of months. You don’t have to give it a chance but I’m using it as a front end for my ATI 4002 and Revel F228Be and it’s doing an excellent job. I almost bought the Arcam while losing patience on Dirac - dodged a bullet there.

I also thought at one time that Emotiva was going to completely fail and there processors were never going to get Dirac but thankfully I was wrong. I don’t care what the solution entails meaning if I need to use this raspberry pi which is at no cost to me to get Dirac in my XMC2, then that’s fine.

it’s interesting that I thought perhaps these other companies were going to wipe Emotiva’s processors off the face of this world but based on the current status, looks like Emotiva is starting to get some momentum.

So you have Dirac 2.0 fully functioning and working in your AVR?

 

[RichB]

So you have Dirac 2.0 fully functioning and working in your AVR?

Dirac has not been released by Emotiva.

It feels imminent by the release of documentation.

- Rich

 

[audioBliss]

Dirac has not been released by Emotiva.

It feels imminent by the release of documentation.

- Rich

Exactly. After years of delaying the product, then people wait years for a stable firmware and yet STILL the main feature of the product is not even working. You know after they release Dirac in a year or whatever then there will be bass management bugs and whatnot. And what about Dirac Bass Control? It will not get that as I understand which is one of the major draws to the new 16 channel processors. Get out while you can. Emotiva made the whole AVR seem imminent years before it was actually in stores..

 

[RichB]

Exactly. After years of delaying the product, then people wait years for a stable firmware and yet STILL the main feature of the product is not even working. You know after they release Dirac in a year or whatever then there will be bass management bugs and whatnot. And what about Dirac Bass Control? It will not get that as I understand which is one of the major draws to the new 16 channel processors. Get out while you can. Emotiva made the whole AVR seem imminent years before it was actually in stores..

This is bad advice for resale since Dirac will arrive, likely within the next month of so.
I encourage Emotiva to initially release Dirac as a "public beta" to properly frame the release and possible reduce the forum flaming.

I have some minor issues with the RMC-1 with firmware 1.10 reported to Emotiva and on the list and will try Dirac when it is released.

- Rich

 

[audioBliss]

Let's hope for the best!

 

[Lsc]

So you have Dirac 2.0 fully functioning and working in your AVR?

I’ve been patiently or impatiently have been waiting for Dirac. Why are you asking me this question when you know the answer?