Arcam AV40 AV Processor Review

[vkvedam]

This review is fake news. They put a lot of effort into minimizing jitter through the HDMI circuitry. Some of the best HDMI out there... believe me.

Proof

Lol, he is a typical marketing guy selling it

 

[polmuaddib]

I provide a suite of measurements because they all matter. SINAD is a measure of noise+harmonic distortion. It doesn't for example measure jitter. And if distortion is high, then it dominates SINAD so we have to look at dynamic range, etc.

I could have created a table for some of the other measurements but maintaining and defending one is enough effort.

No, don't get me wrong, I am just trying to get a sense of things. I've been reading reviews for some time now and learning. It was more of a question, really, because if we are to "mark" all these devices and say this one is better then this one and so on, we can't just rely on SINAD chart alone, right? Some device with slightly worse SINAD might perform better in other areas then a higher SINAD device, thereby audibly be more pleasing? I understand that SINAD chart is the most significant.
Thanks

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Here you can find pretty detailed review of it's predecessor RSP-1572 (which had slightly worse specs) done by @Kal Rubinson so maybe he can chime in with his impressions.

Are you kidding? That was 8 years ago and I had to follow your link to remind myself that I did review it.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Looks like there is a premade solution to add digital SPDIF output to the Oppo Players:
https://audiopraise.com/docs/vanityhd_settings_english.pdf

AFAIk, that is no longer available.

 

[Koeitje]

I'm starting to think ASR should design and produce our own AV processor.

We must have enough in house expertise, could it be any worse ?

The ASR Pink Panther AVR???

I will only buy it if its actually pink.

 

[dlinsley]

I will only buy it if its actually pink.

It could be the MK edition. Not Miller Kreisel, but Mary Kay. It would be the Cadillac of processors

 

[amirm]

No, don't get me wrong, I am just trying to get a sense of things. I've been reading reviews for some time now and learning. It was more of a question, really, because if we are to "mark" all these devices and say this one is better then this one and so on, we can't just rely on SINAD chart alone, right? Some device with slightly worse SINAD might perform better in other areas then a higher SINAD device, thereby audibly be more pleasing? I understand that SINAD chart is the most significant.
Thanks

That is true in the absolute but as practical matter, once SINAD gets really good, it indicates good engineering and rest of measurements also shine. I don't recall a single DAC with SINAD > 110 dB that had poor results elsewhere for example.

Once SINAD slips down to 90 and below, it indicates design issues and hence likelihood of finding other problems becomes higher.

 

[carlosmante]

Lol, he is a typical marketing guy selling it

Let's be HONEST and don't
Don't put words in someone's mouth
. I saw the video and nowhere the guy from Audioholics says or pretend the video is a "review". Your attitude is NOT scientific and accounts to Cheap Gossip.

 

[carlosmante]

This review is fake news. They put a lot of effort into minimizing jitter through the HDMI circuitry. Some of the best HDMI out there... believe me.

Proof

Can you tell me in what part of the video is posted as a " review"?

 

[YSC]

That is true in the absolute but as practical matter, once SINAD gets really good, it indicates good engineering and rest of measurements also shine. I don't recall a single DAC with SINAD > 110 dB that had poor results elsewhere for example.

Once SINAD slips down to 90 and below, it indicates design issues and hence likelihood of finding other problems becomes higher.

May I do a slight elaboration? I feel it can be more specific, for chip and opamp designs where component manufacturers have done the most difficult part the SINAD check mark is usually at >110db, but for discrete ones which inherently been easier to have things go wrong, I recall seeing designs ~100db already showing generally very good results in all aspects,

basically from my understanding is that at 90 dB or so human is unlikely to hear the difference, but the other design problems which might make the experience less pleasing will be unlikely when a designer takes their time to competently design their products, thus equipment measures pretty well in SINAD will usually be more likely to be practically perfect in the sense of perceived perfection?

 

[jam]

This review is fake news. They put a lot of effort into minimizing jitter through the HDMI circuitry. Some of the best HDMI out there... believe me.

Proof

Can you tell me in what part of the video is posted as a " review"?

Carlos, I don't think that Senior NEET Engineer meant that the YouTube video was a review. The way I understood his post is that he was kidding and pretending that Amir's review of the Arcam AV40 was "fake news" because of the bad measurements Amir's review uncovered and the claims that the Acam rep is making.

Lol, he is a typical marketing guy selling it

Let's be HONEST and don't
Don't put words in someone's mouth
. I saw the video and nowhere the guy from Audioholics says or pretend the video is a "review". Your attitude is NOT scientific and accounts to Cheap Gossip.

Again, vkvedam is talking about thet the Arcam representative that Audioholics' Gene DellaSala is interviewing about the new product launches, he's not talking about Gene. The Arcam rep can be clearly heard making the following statements about the AV40 and I quote:
- "some of the best HDMI out there"
- "hands down the Arcam receivers are the best sounding receivers out there"
- "we put a lot of effort into minimizing jitter through the HDMI circuitry, definitely the lowest amount of jitter"
- "rock solid HDMI performance"

I hope this clears up the confusion. At least, I hope I'm not the one confused about all this. LOL

 

[amirm]

basically from my understanding is that at 90 dB or so human is unlikely to hear the difference, but the other design problems which might make the experience less pleasing will be unlikely when a designer takes their time to competently design their products, thus equipment measures pretty well in SINAD will usually be more likely to be practically perfect in the sense of perceived perfection?

There is no research to back "90 dB." There is research that says if distortion products are below 115 dB or so, they are below threshold of hearing (at reference level playback) so can be guaranteed to be inaudible. As a practical matter, the limit for most people is much less than this but we can't put a precise number on it that way.

This is why I like to see performance reach that 115 dB number so that we know transparency is achieved for all content, all people and all playback levels.

 

[stunta]

There is no research to back "90 dB." There is research that says if distortion products are below 115 dB or so, they are below threshold of hearing (at reference level playback) so can be guaranteed to be inaudible. As a practical matter, the limit for most people is much less than this but we can't put a precise number on it that way.

This is why I like to see performance reach that 115 dB number so that we know transparency is achieved for all content, all people and all playback levels.

With this processor under review, you said "The DAC chip that is uses is ESS9026Pro which ESS rates at a SINAD of 110 dB ".

So the DAC chip itself is the limiting factor? From there they've managed to make things worse I guess.

 

[amirm]

With this processor under review, you said "The DAC chip that is uses is ESS9026Pro which ESS rates at a SINAD of 110 dB ".

So the DAC chip itself is the limiting factor? From there they've managed to make things worse I guess.

I would have happily taken 110. Unless ESS is also exaggerating (possible since they are secretive and don't release specs), the issue right now is the implementation.

 

[Lao Lu]

Clearly, Amir is doing it all wrong. This is how reviews should be done: https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/arcam-av40-surround-sound-processor-review/

FTA:



and there is this:

Has anyone seen that moment in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof where Burl Ives as Dig Daddy marches in bellowing "MENDACITY!"........?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Are you kidding? That was 8 years ago and I had to follow your link to remind myself that I did review it.

I think that answers the question. The impression made was so impressive, Kal wasn't sure he remembered reviewing it.

 

[vkvedam]

Let's be HONEST and don't
Don't put words in someone's mouth
. I saw the video and nowhere the guy from Audioholics says or pretend the video is a "review". Your attitude is NOT scientific and accounts to Cheap Gossip.

You clearly missed my point. The guy doing all the explaining isn't clearly aware of how poor the jitter measures through the HDMI, he is only going by the marketing material that's been given to him.

 

[Blumlein 88]

There is no research to back "90 dB." There is research that says if distortion products are below 115 dB or so, they are below threshold of hearing (at reference level playback) so can be guaranteed to be inaudible. As a practical matter, the limit for most people is much less than this but we can't put a precise number on it that way.

This is why I like to see performance reach that 115 dB number so that we know transparency is achieved for all content, all people and all playback levels.

Well there is the big gray area. There could be 80 db devices which are clean under use if they have the right kind of other characteristics. 80 to 115 db is a 35 db gray area.

But if a $4500 device does worse than a $1500 device whether audible or not, and it has no super convenience or other useful features it is a bad deal.

 

[Luminous White]

Gosh, I’m really hoping AudioControl makes the correct fixes to these things. They make measurement mics and interfaces so hopefully they have some standard for quality. Subjectively I can say that I really like their amps, but haven’t heard a source component yet. Im really starting to wonder if one needs to get a Trinnov to have a “quality” experience.

 

[Sagnet]

If you keep the x3600 under 1.5v I believe it is around 97 SINDAD on all channels. This equates to 79.5 on the volume (or -.5).

79.5 is the same as -5.5, isn't it? I believe 0dB relative equals 85 dB absolute on the Denon receivers. Please correct me if I'm wrong.