Tell Us If You Use 3.1, 5.1, 7.1 9.1 system?

[popej]

If somebody describes their system as 7.2, they would be incorrect from a technical perspective. Dolby nor DTS has a 7.2 format - nobody does.

What about 13.1? Are users of Auro 3D technically incorrect, when describing their system?

 

[boxerfan88]

Could it be that the X.Y.Z is to describe the number of independent channels on the AVR backplate, instead of content channels?

AVR can downmix/upmix as required, no?

 

[anotherhobby]

Nobody is going to change the X.Y.Z. standard multi-channel notation system. Even if it doesn't make perfect sense, it's used everywhere and you'll just have to live with it. Everybody knows what it means, and if you don't it takes no time to check with your favorite AI or google.

I'm just finishing up a new room/system and currently have 7 bed channels, 2 independent subs, and no atmos yet (waiting on 4 Philharmonic True Minis for that). I fired up Dirac live for the first time, which read the speaker config from my Denon 4800H and reported 7.2.0 in the UI. This numbering system is everywhere and isn't going anywhere.

As to the original question in the thread, I will be using ALL of the channels my AVR is capable of (11 speakers and 4 subs) to get 7.4.4 in my theater, and it will even take some additional amps to power everything since the 4800H only has 9 amps in it. I also have an older 4300H in my living room. That one is only doing 5.2, so it's not using all the channels.

 

[Soundmixer]

What about 13.1? Are users of Auro 3D technically incorrect, when describing their system?

Auro uses it to describe their format, so it is correct. The difference here is both Dolby and DTS describe their systems as 7.1.4, not 7.2.4, 7.4.4, or 7.15.4.

 

[Soundmixer]

Why do you feel the only appropriate use of x.x.x is for describing the channels of a mix.

It is routinely used (eg by AVR manufacturers & Resellers) to also describe the number of amp/speaker channel they have on their devices. That is also how most people here are using it.

View attachment 435443

And yes - even Dolby is using it in that way.

Have you ever heard of marketing speak? Did you know those 4 (or 2) subwoofer outputs are split from a single channel? That is what marketing speak does, it overemphasizes (or omits) things to gain a product marketing advantage.

As far as what Dolby says...from your link.

• A 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 system uses two ceiling speakers, or two Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers or modules.
• A 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 system uses four ceiling speakers, or four Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers or modules.
• A 9.1.2 system adds a pair of front wide speakers to a 7.1.2 layout.
  
  Do you see anything other than a .1? Do you see a .2, .4, or .18? This is the difference between how Dolby and DTS market their formats versus how product manufacturers market theirs.

 

[DonH56]

I thought the .1 indicated the (single) LFE channel? That is just one channel, but bass management means more than one channel's bass can be routed to the sub(s), thus the confusion (and marketing). Not all bass is mixed to mono, though most of my collection seems to be, and not all AVR/AVPs have a single bass channel. It gets confusing again (at least to me) because some AVR/AVPs just wire two subs in parallel, others have 2 or more sub outputs but differ only in delays, and some (like my SDP-75) have independent channels for each sub (obviously LFE and mono bass sends the same signal to each sub, but LF content from individual speaker channels can be routed to the nearest sub if desired).

That said, I have 7 base speakers, 4 subwoofers, and 4 overhead speakers in my system, using 15 channels of my processor.

 

[Oddball]

Have you ever heard of marketing speak? Did you know those 4 (or 2) subwoofer outputs are split from a single channel? That is what marketing speak does, it overemphasizes (or omits) things to gain a product marketing advantage.

As far as what Dolby says...from your link.

• A 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 system uses two ceiling speakers, or two Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers or modules.
• A 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 system uses four ceiling speakers, or four Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers or modules.
• A 9.1.2 system adds a pair of front wide speakers to a 7.1.2 layout.
  
  Do you see anything other than a .1? Do you see a .2, .4, or .18? This is the difference between how Dolby and DTS market their formats versus how product manufacturers market theirs.

I think by now that all got the point about single LFE channel. But then there is the overall bass management with all of the additional options depending on the platform.

It is true that some AVRs or AVPs have two sub outputs split from the same channel so can’t be independently delayed or EQ’d but then some have truly independent multiple sub outputs that can be delayed independently and EQ’d well in line with the room correction solution at hand.

A product truly gains advantage with more independent sub outputs when that is what the users want. I would really not go back to anything with less than 4 independent sub outputs as it truly sounds much better than a single sub/output solution - albeit still for the single and mono LFE channel.

So not really understanding the point of constantly claiming that there is only one LFE channel when we all seem to agree with the point - with additional observations as to how that channel can be reproduced with different number of subs and different bass management options?

 

[Daverz]

I've been experimenting with a DIY 4.0 setup. The center channel is attenuated by 3 dB and mixed in to the front channels.

I'm not sure what to do with the few music recordings with info in the LFE channel. Some recordings even have full-range signals in the LFE channel. Any idea what the intention may have been with these? For now I'm not using the LFE channel.

All the mixing/routing/filtering of channels is done with CamillaDSP on a Raspberry Pi 4, and the DAC is a Motu Ultralite Mk5.

Mains are the Buchardt S400 crossed over to a pair of SVS SB-1000 Pro subs.

Surrounds are the little Micca MB42X G2 reviewed here by Amir.

The speaker arrangement is a 7 foot distance from the listening position for all speakers with the usually recommended 30 degrees for mains and 110 degrees for surrounds.

The surround levels are calibrated with pink noise.

The crossovers and room correction are done with Acourate.

So far I have two ways to play back multi-channel recordings:

* By feeding the analog outputs of an Oppo DV-983H disc player into the analog inputs of the Motu.

* By playing back multi-channel FLAC files on the Pi. Currently I use VNC to run a file-based audio player (Audacious), which is a bit awkward. I'd like to get a music server set up on the Pi that I can control with a phone. Sadly my beloved LMS does not support multi-channel playback.

 

[antcollinet]

Did you know those 4 (or 2) subwoofer outputs are split from a single channel?

Sure - there is only one LFE in the mix.

But the four outputs on my AVR can each output a different signal. They can mix in bass from the other speaker channels depending on their location, and they can also be independently EQ'd by room correction filters.

 

[alvigg]

Only sort of true if using DLBC. That corrects each sub independently.

 

[popej]

Auro uses it to describe their format, so it is correct.

Denon uses to describe their x3800 as "9.4 channels", so it is correct

 

[Soundmixer]

Denon uses to describe their x3800 as "9.4 channels", so it is correct

No, it is not. It would have to have 4 independent subwoofer outputs, and it doesn't.

 

[Chrispy]

No, it is not. It would have to have 4 independent subwoofer outputs, and it doesn't.

Yes, the 3800 has 4 independently adjustable sub pre-outs for level/delay.

 

[Soundmixer]

Sure - there is only one LFE in the mix.

But the four outputs on my AVR can each output a different signal. They can mix in bass from the other speaker channels depending on their location, and they can also be independently EQ'd by room correction filters.

That is an AVR post-process that is not a part of the original mixing process. This has nothing to do with a format nomenclature.

 

[Soundmixer]

Yes, the 3800 has 4 independently adjustable sub pre-outs for level/delay.

They are not outputting 4 different discrete signals. Once again, these are post-processing within the AVR and have nothing to do with a format's nomenclature.

 

[Chrispy]

They are not outputting 4 different discrete signals. Once again, these are post-processing within the AVR and have nothing to do with a format's nomenclature.

What gear provides 4 different discrete signals, the primary signal doesn't, i.e. the LFE channel. Granted, people mix content and processing with speaker capabilities.

 

[Bleib]

6.0 currently. 2 front full range, 2 mirage omnisat on the sides and two omnidirectional at the back.
I'm too lazy to fix up a center speaker and it's a bit shame because often mostly atmos movies tend to have low mixing for voices

 

[Chrispy]

6.0 currently. 2 front full range, 2 mirage omnisat on the sides and two omnidirectional at the back.
I'm too lazy to fix up a center speaker and it's a bit shame because often mostly atmos movies tend to have low mixing for voices

How are you managing the LFE content?

 

[Bleib]

How are you managing the LFE content?

Front speakers go down to 28hz, so they manage well enough

 

[Chrispy]

Front speakers go down to 28hz, so they manage well enough

How does that work for LFE content capability, tho?