Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[peng]

Probably because they don't want to get called out when a site like this can't replicate they're results. That's a little bit of a harsh conclusion but you and me have talked before Peng about our skepticism about they're amplifiers really delivering they're ratings into lower ohm loads they spec.

On that one I have actually changed my mind slightly, after realizing they did claim the gen2 MCA amps (mine is gen0/1) used one power supply for all channels. My apology for jumping to conclusion too quickly... I don't like that approach (shared PS) but it does have the advantage that the one shared large power supply could push more current into 1 or even two channels, hence the 2 Ohm rating that otherwise would look fake. That even allowed them to use a lot less storage capacitance than the likes of the Halo A51, Monolith 200WX5,7 amps. I suspect the main reason they did it that way was more about cost, realizing they now have to compete with more high power class D amps such as the Hypex and Purifi based ones, and the Monolith amps that are becoming quite popular; and less about engineering merits but that's just my opinion/guess.

 

[danzilla31]

On that one I have actually changed my mind slightly, after realizing they did claim the gen2 MCA amps (mine is gen0/1) used one power supply for all channels. My apology for jumping to conclusion too quickly... I don't like that approach (shared PS) but it does have the advantage that the one shared large power supply could push more current into 1 or even two channels, hence the 2 Ohm rating that otherwise would look fake. That even allowed them to use a lot less storage capacitance than the likes of the Halo A51, Monolith 200WX5,7 amps. I suspect the main reason they did it that way was more about cost, realizing they now have to compete with more high power class D amps such as the Hypex and Purifi based ones, and the Monolith amps that are becoming quite popular; and less about engineering merits but that's just my opinion/guess.

So they basically bank on the fact that not all channels are going to be taxed the same at the same time. So when needed one channel or 2 could pull that draw if called upon since the other channels aren't being maxed at that time. Like a power grid for electricity. That's good to know Peng thanks

I eventually am probably going to go to the quality D class amps you guys have been talking about on this forum if I had to do it over again and stayed AB I'd have just bought 2 of the monolith 7 and called it a day.

 

[peng]

So they basically bank on the fact that not all channels are going to be taxed the same at the same time. So when needed one channel or 2 could pull that draw if called upon since the other channels aren't being maxed at that time. Like a power grid for electricity. That's good to know Peng thanks

Yes, at least that's my educated guess/understanding. Below was what I found:

Anthem® | MCA 525 GEN 2 | Overview (anthemav.com)

"Higher Power into More Demanding Loads
While most 5-channel amplifiers use a single power supply for front left and right channels and another power supply of the centre and surround, the new MCA 525 GEN 2 shares its two power supplies between all channels. The result is full bursts of power – instantly – without affecting channel separation.

"

For the 5 channel version, there are two power supplies, but they are shared between all channels so it is effective same as one large power supply. Two shared ones, imo is not a good way to go because it would effectively mean having two transformers operating in parallel that would require the two transformers to be identical in characteristics to very close tolerant, to avoid circulating current.

Note that nowhere did it say anything about how many channels were being driven simultaneously. You can do the math though, consider even just 2 channel driven simultaneously condition, 600 W into 2 Ohms mean 600X2 = 1200 W. Those are class AB amps so efficiency should be no more than 80% maximum. Let's assume the best scenario, that is 80% efficiency (that's very optimistic), the input power draw would be at least 1200/0.8 = 1500 W, or 1500/120 = 12.5 A We both know a dedicated 15 A circuit is rated 15X0.8 (electrical code) = 12 A so even under two channel driven continuously, the 600 W into 2 Ohm load would exceed the 15 A circuits rating!! No wonder Anthem's own P series 5 channel power amp requires two 15 A circuits.

I eventually am probably going to go to the quality D class amps you guys have been talking about on this forum if I had to do it over again and stayed AB I'd have just bought 2 of the monolith 7 and called it a day.

2 Monolith 7? That should be enough power for a very long time, I would think!!

 

[Vasr]

I suspect the main reason they did it that way was more about cost, realizing they now have to compete with more high power class D amps such as the Hypex and Purifi based ones, and the Monolith amps that are becoming quite popular; and less about engineering merits but that's just my opinion/guess.

The last part is exactly right. But not necessarily due to cost. More of marketing and making lemonade out of lemons (no to imply Anthems are lemons)

First, most good amplifiers 2.0+ have separate windings for each channel. This has long been recognized as a good practice to ensure the dynamics of one channel did not affect the dynamics of another from a shared power supply. A way to get independent power supplies with a single transformer housing.

As correctly pointed out, the power spec inflation meant they did have to compete in power specs. There are two problems with a single transformer with multiple windings for all channels as power needs grow. They get big in diameter (and with potential heat issues) that might make the overall layout tricky. They get very heavy in weight localized at where they are placed which would make the unit very difficult to handle because of imbalance unless placed right dead center of the chassis (which would again create layout problems especially for a multi-channel amp).

Two transformers balance the weight better at least in one dimension and likely makes the layout easier than one big one. But if you wanted to limit the size but also needed large power specs on paper you would do what Anthem has done and share the power supply. And then claim all the reasons for having separate windings no longer matter. "It is not a bug, it is a feature".

 

[tparm]

Yes, at least that's my educated guess/understanding. Below was what I found:

Anthem® | MCA 525 GEN 2 | Overview (anthemav.com)

"Higher Power into More Demanding Loads
While most 5-channel amplifiers use a single power supply for front left and right channels and another power supply of the centre and surround, the new MCA 525 GEN 2 shares its two power supplies between all channels. The result is full bursts of power – instantly – without affecting channel separation.

View attachment 115671"

For the 5 channel version, there are two power supplies, but they are shared between all channels so it is effective same as one large power supply. Two shared ones, imo is not a good way to go because it would effectively mean having two transformers operating in parallel that would require the two transformers to be identical in characteristics to very close tolerant, to avoid circulating current.

Note that nowhere did it say anything about how many channels were being driven simultaneously. You can do the math though, consider even just 2 channel driven simultaneously condition, 600 W into 2 Ohms mean 600X2 = 1200 W. Those are class AB amps so efficiency should be no more than 80% maximum. Let's assume the best scenario, that is 80% efficiency (that's very optimistic), the input power draw would be at least 1200/0.8 = 1500 W, or 1500/120 = 12.5 A We both know a dedicated 15 A circuit is rated 15X0.8 (electrical code) = 12 A so even under two channel driven continuously, the 600 W into 2 Ohm load would exceed the 15 A circuits rating!! No wonder Anthem's own P series 5 channel power amp requires two 15 A circuits.

View attachment 115681




2 Monolith 7? That should be enough power for a very long time, I would think!!

Peng, do the dual transformers in the Monolith work in parallel? I never thought about it the way you described, interesting.

 

[peng]

Peng, do the dual transformers in the Monolith work in parallel? I never thought about it the way you described, interesting.

No, not as far as I know.

There are pros and cons of paralleling two transformers. Vasr mentioned some of the benefits. The negatives would include but not limited to the following:

- potential circulating current, but can be eliminated or minimized to the point it won't do much harm by making sure the transformers being parallel have identical (or as identical as practically possible) characteristics including voltage ratio, input/out voltages, VA rating and impedances. Basically, best to use two identical transformers.

- increased fault level, i.e. short circuit current. For audio amp applications, it might also impact on channel separation, though Anthem claimed not..

parallel_operation.pdf (iitb.ac.in)

 

[tparm]

No, not as far as I know.

There are pros and cons of paralleling two transformers. Vasr mentioned some of the benefits. The negatives would include but not limited to the following:

- potential circulating current, but can be eliminated or minimized to the point it won't do much harm by making sure the transformers being parallel have identical (or as identical as practically possible) characteristics including voltage ratio, input/out voltages, VA rating and impedances. Basically, best to use two identical transformers.

- increased fault level, i.e. short circuit current. For audio amp applications, it might also impact on channel separation, though Anthem claimed not..

parallel_operation.pdf (iitb.ac.in)

Thanks Peng. I wish there were standards in displaying specs for amplifiers. It is very difficult to compare, say my Parasound Halo A52+, a Monolith 5X, Emo XPA DR3 or XPA5 Gen 3. I understand amplifiers, in theory, don't affect the sound signature but they do vary as far as actual power, peak power per channel or multiple channels, distortion and/or noise.

 

[peng]

Thanks Peng. I wish there were standards in displaying specs for amplifiers. It is very difficult to compare, say my Parasound Halo A52+, a Monolith 5X, Emo XPA DR3 or XPA5 Gen 3. I understand amplifiers, in theory, don't affect the sound signature but they do vary as far as actual power, peak power per channel or multiple channels, distortion and/or noise.

Fully agreed but realistically that likely won't happen because it is about audio gear, not something that governments anywhere would be interesting in regulating and/or require manufacturers to comply with certain standards. The only thing they seem to care about is probably covered by things like UL, CSA, CE, ULc, ULEU kind of deals, at least in their eyes. That kind of approvals are about fire and electrical safety, and a little bit about environmental/"green", not audio specs. I dare say the majority of audio amps, avr/avp/avc users don't really know enough to worry about actual vs advertised power, distotions/noise etc., because what they don't know can't hurt them. We are the minorities..

Edit: FTC's Part 432 (PART 432—POWER OUTPUT CLAIMS FOR AMPLIFIERS UTILIZED IN HOME ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTS) is probably one that amplifier manufacturers do have to follow, if sold in the US anyway. I am not sure if and how it gets enforced though. Besides, it apparently is being reviewed for changes and may even be dropped...

 

[SimpleTheater]

@amirm It's been a while. Any updates with Anthem?
Thanks for your service to the AV industry and us consumers.

 

[Soikki]

I have been an AVM60 user for about three years. During that time, I recall doing roughly three firmware updates.

Whenever I've been using the menus for configuring the device, I have never experienced any "freeze" or other misbehaviour.

I have disabled ARC for every input.

I mostly use AVM60 for listening to music, every now and then I watch a movie with Blu-ray player or Chromecast attached with hdmi. Video output device is a video projector.

My music players are:

-Consonance reference cd 2.2, connected with RCA's as I like the DAC in this player. AVM60 is in analogue mode for this

-A pretty decent spec Linn Sondek LP player. Connected to AVM60 with RCA's, through Graham Slee elevator xp and Graham Slee reflex m. AVM60 in analogue mode

-Bluesound node 2i, connected to AVM60 with coaxial cable. Anthem is used as DAC

-After AVM60 I have Proceed Amp 2 power amplifier, connected with XLR's. Speakers are System audio explorer master.

-As a headphone system I have Focal Arche headphone amplifier & DAC, headphones are Focal Clear. Arche is connected to AVM60 via RCA's, to Bluesound via toslink

Now for some comments:

-I have never heard any noise or hum from speakers or headphones when music is off but power is on

-Anthem's headphone amp was a disappointment

-I have been satisfied with the sound quality, although I haven't tested any other preamp since upgrading to AVM60 from Nad T-175

-I have never experienced any connection issues with digital sources

-I recently purchased the Focal Arche. Before purchase I tested it a few days. I also tested the Arche DAC Vs. AVM60 dac, using coaxial connection from Bluesound, to Arche and AVM60. I was very surprised that I couldn't tell any difference between those. A few days later I checked what chips those dac's are using, both use AKM chips, although different model numbers. When I have been comparing other dac's, I have always been able to hear a difference. I was very surprised when I couldn't. But I think the chip thing explains it.

So here's my experience.

 

[tparm]

I have been an AVM60 user for about three years. During that time, I recall doing roughly three firmware updates.

Whenever I've been using the menus for configuring the device, I have never experienced any "freeze" or other misbehaviour.

I have disabled ARC for every input.

I mostly use AVM60 for listening to music, every now and then I watch a movie with Blu-ray player or Chromecast attached with hdmi. Video output device is a video projector.

My music players are:

-Consonance reference cd 2.2, connected with RCA's as I like the DAC in this player. AVM60 is in analogue mode for this

-A pretty decent spec Linn Sondek LP player. Connected to AVM60 with RCA's, through Graham Slee elevator xp and Graham Slee reflex m. AVM60 in analogue mode

-Bluesound node 2i, connected to AVM60 with coaxial cable. Anthem is used as DAC

-After AVM60 I have Proceed Amp 2 power amplifier, connected with XLR's. Speakers are System audio explorer master.

-As a headphone system I have Focal Arche headphone amplifier & DAC, headphones are Focal Clear. Arche is connected to AVM60 via RCA's, to Bluesound via toslink

Now for some comments:

-I have never heard any noise or hum from speakers or headphones when music is off but power is on

-Anthem's headphone amp was a disappointment

-I have been satisfied with the sound quality, although I haven't tested any other preamp since upgrading to AVM60 from Nad T-175

-I have never experienced any connection issues with digital sources

-I recently purchased the Focal Arche. Before purchase I tested it a few days. I also tested the Arche DAC Vs. AVM60 dac, using coaxial connection from Bluesound, to Arche and AVM60. I was very surprised that I couldn't tell any difference between those. A few days later I checked what chips those dac's are using, both use AKM chips, although different model numbers. When I have been comparing other dac's, I have always been able to hear a difference. I was very surprised when I couldn't. But I think the chip thing explains it.

So here's my experience.

Safe to assume the signal is digitized whether you are using analog or digital connection if ARC is engaged? Therefore you are only hearing the AVM 60 DAC in both cases.

 

[Soikki]

Safe to assume the signal is digitized whether you are using analog or digital connection if ARC is engaged? Therefore you are only hearing the AVM 60 DAC in both cases.

I wrote there that ARC is disabled for all inputs. So if I listen to analogue source, it isn't going through AVM60 DAC.

If you mean my comparison of Arche vs. AVM60, I did it like this:

-bluesound connected to AVM60 with coaxial. Listened for a while
-disconnected coaxial cable from Bluesound, connected coaxial cable from Arche to Bluesound. Listened for a while.

Repeat

PS: I maybe didn't totally understand your comment

 

[tparm]

I wrote there that ARC is disabled for all inputs. So if I listen to analogue source, it isn't going through AVM60 DAC.

If you mean my comparison of Arche vs. AVM60, I did it like this:

-bluesound connected to AVM60 with coaxial. Listened for a while
-disconnected coaxial cable from Bluesound, connected coaxial cable from Arche to Bluesound. Listened for a while.

Repeat

PS: I maybe didn't totally understand your comment

Sorry, I missed the no ARC part of your post!

 

[Soikki]

Sorry, I missed the no ARC part of your post!

No problem bro

 

[Newman]

Safe to assume the signal is digitized whether you are using analog or digital connection if ARC is engaged? Therefore you are only hearing the AVM 60 DAC in both cases.

I love the opening words, "safe to assume".....! How did that work out

 

[Spocko]

As Amir will be reviewing the Trinnov Altitude 16 shortly, I welcome you to post questions and measurements requests you'd like to see, especially in the context of the Anthem measurements. I am collecting those questions HERE for @amirm to consider.

 

[walt99]

Assuming Anthem is following this thread, I would like them to know that if they don’t respond soon to this I will be returning my AVM70 to crutchfield before the 30 day trial is up. Maybe the only way to get their attention if they start seeing people returning their units.

I do a lot of 2 ch listening so this is very important to me personally.
Never been a big Denon fan but right now they are looking like the best alternative (x8500 or A-110)

Just a quick follow up to my post above, not that anyone cares, specs aside the 70 had enough issues that I couldn't deal with it anymore.

So I returned the 70 and went with a Denon AVR A110, performance/operation of the A110 has been flawless.... it sounds as good or better, the remote is much nicer, the UI is better, the remote app works perfect (didn't work at all on the Anthem), the build quality is MUCH better, it has built in amps for surround, you get the idea. Glad I moved on, now I can just enjoy the music and stop trying to fix the anthem.

 

[Spocko]

Just a quick follow up to my post above, not that anyone cares, specs aside the 70 had enough issues that I couldn't deal with it anymore.

So I returned the 70 and went with a Denon AVR A110, performance/operation of the A110 has been flawless.... it sounds as good or better, the remote is much nicer, the UI is better, the remote app works perfect (didn't work at all on the Anthem), the build quality is MUCH better, it has built in amps for surround, you get the idea. Glad I moved on, now I can just enjoy the music and stop trying to fix the anthem.

It will be a Denon world in 3 years.

 

[Jim - where is The Abyss]

Just a quick follow up to my post above, not that anyone cares, specs aside the 70 had enough issues that I couldn't deal with it anymore.

So I returned the 70 and went with a Denon AVR A110, performance/operation of the A110 has been flawless.... it sounds as good or better, the remote is much nicer, the UI is better, the remote app works perfect (didn't work at all on the Anthem), the build quality is MUCH better, it has built in amps for surround, you get the idea. Glad I moved on, now I can just enjoy the music and stop trying to fix the anthem.

I actually do care about your experience and I must admit I am growing a bit concerned about Anthem. Other than one very helpful phone conversation, their tech support has been poor or unresponsive.

 

[Newman]

Just a quick follow up to my post above, not that anyone cares, specs aside the 70 had enough issues that I couldn't deal with it anymore.

So I returned the 70 and went with a Denon AVR A110, performance/operation of the A110 has been flawless.... it sounds as good or better, the remote is much nicer, the UI is better, the remote app works perfect (didn't work at all on the Anthem), the build quality is MUCH better, it has built in amps for surround, you get the idea. Glad I moved on, now I can just enjoy the music and stop trying to fix the anthem.

I most certainly do care, thanks for posting.

Although I see the A110 sells for twice the price of the AVM70 in my market. The Denon 6700H would have been more comparable.