Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[krizvi786]

One thing I've always disliked is room eq. I've never met a system I liked yet. I guess it's why I wanted to try Dirac on the Monolith. Never tried it yet. I always end up turning them off and using a laser ruler and meter and then just eq the subs and do room treatments. I don't know why I don't like the way they make things sound I just do. I wonder if anyone else feels the same way.

yes i always seem to lose “crispness” of the sound with any eq

 

[Newman]

And why do you think that is?

 

[danzilla31]

And why do you think that is?

Honestly speaking for me I dont know why. I've learned a TON over the last 4 to 5 years from you guys audioholics and AVS how to properly treat my room setup and actual measurements on a room. And I still can't get myself to like them. I do like eqing the bass tho would rather do that manually it takes awhile to learn how to use tools like mini dsp and take room measurements but is so worth it.
I'm totally willing to acknowledge it may be bias. I grew up utilizing an spl meter and tape measure and then adding feet onto my sub distance after the sub crawl and playing with phase until I liked the sound
Maybe my brain and ears just have a problem with letting that go and trusting or adjusting to room eq
I do know I'm not alone tho. Others have said they don't like them some are pretty passionate about it. I'm more on the neutral side of I just haven't found one I like yet but still optimistic

 

[nathan]

The big difference for me was learning to use EQ to deal with room modes. In a sense, that is what you are doing when EQ-ing the sub, though there are two octaves above the sub that are also subject to room modes (80-160 and 160-320) so that is where having some more EQ in the system (like ARC) can make a big difference (similar to EQ ing the sub) and luckily ARC as well as most other good systems lets you choose to stop the EQ process at any frequency.

Toole has some great explanations of this in his book and in that lecture on youtube where he shows that most decent speakers' response is very similar below the transition frequency since you are mostly hearing the room, and it is above that realm (ie, c. 400hz and above, depending on room size) where the speakers tend to exert more influence than the room.

And, by the way, he also agrees with you that EQ above the room modes realm is a losing battle and does more harm than good in many, maybe most situations.

 

[yanm]

The big difference for me was learning to use EQ to deal with room modes. In a sense, that is what you are doing when EQ-ing the sub, though there are two octaves above the sub that are also subject to room modes (80-160 and 160-320) so that is where having some more EQ in the system (like ARC) can make a big difference (similar to EQ ing the sub) and luckily ARC as well as most other good systems lets you choose to stop the EQ process at any frequency.

Toole has some great explanations of this in his book and in that lecture on youtube where he shows that most decent speakers' response is very similar below the transition frequency since you are mostly hearing the room, and it is above that realm (ie, c. 400hz and above, depending on room size) where the speakers tend to exert more influence than the room.

And, by the way, he also agrees with you that EQ above the room modes realm is a losing battle and does more harm than good in many, maybe most situations.

Thank for the link, really an excellent and must see presentation!

 

[nathan]

Yeah, it would have been cool if they recorded the next talk he did, but I can find no record of that having ever been shared. It would be awesome to have such a coherent, friendly discussion of the findings about room modes, bass management, and subwoofers that Welti and Olive published, that he draws from in his book, in the same kind of discussion / format. It would be awesome if he had published some of his PPTs and notes, even if he hasn't released an actual "performance" (giving the presentation).

But I am grateful that this particular presentation is available on YouTube.

And of course if one wants more, then his book is GREAT.....just a bit intimidating to the great unwashed masses (ie, me)....though the nice thing is that every chapter is something you can learn from on it's own, etc etc.

 

[Newman]

Honestly speaking for me I dont know why. I've learned a TON over the last 4 to 5 years from you guys audioholics and AVS how to properly treat my room setup and actual measurements on a room. And I still can't get myself to like them. I do like eqing the bass tho would rather do that manually it takes awhile to learn how to use tools like mini dsp and take room measurements but is so worth it.
I'm totally willing to acknowledge it may be bias. I grew up utilizing an spl meter and tape measure and then adding feet onto my sub distance after the sub crawl and playing with phase until I liked the sound
Maybe my brain and ears just have a problem with letting that go and trusting or adjusting to room eq
I do know I'm not alone tho. Others have said they don't like them some are pretty passionate about it. I'm more on the neutral side of I just haven't found one I like yet but still optimistic

And I think you hit on the right answer(s). One is cognitive bias, and the other is that full automation is not yet good enough and needs to be tweaked. Cheers

 

[TimoJ]

yes i always seem to lose “crispness” of the sound with any eq

Are you talking about room eqs or just peqs? If you use default room eq curves, for example Dirac or Harman curve, in my experience in my listening room, I will lose "crispness". But you can adjust the curve and get the "crispness" back or even add more "crispness".

I get superior results with full range Dirac room correction. It was love at first "sight" when I first tried it with PC and then started using different Dirac hardware units. Imaging improvements with regular speakers reminds me what I used to get with Martin Logan panels.

 

[yanm]

And of course if one wants more, then his book is GREAT.....just a bit intimidating to the great unwashed masses (ie, me)....though the nice thing is that every chapter is something you can learn from on it's own, etc etc.

Just ordered the book, should be there next week.

 

[peng]

Just ordered the book, should be there next week.

There should be at least a couple of chapters on subjective vs objective and the need for DBT. I downloaded the older edition but would buy the newest one if downloadable.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Anthem should make an unambiguous statement that they are sending a replacement unit, the 70 model or the results are accurate. Denon had clarified issues much more quickly and while I’m certain they are still working with Amir, the time delay makes me feel their customer service and engineering departments are either overworked or lazy.

 

[gattaca]

^^^ Or trying to figure out how put "lipstick on what may be a pig"... I could also believe Anthem's Engineers are diligently "assessing the facts / situation and pursuing solid root-cause explanation." We just have to wait. Since I own the AVM60 which I purchased in very late 2019 - after waiting and waiting for an "updated model" and told there was "none on the horizon", I'm eager for this story, the final results and root-cause(s) of Amir's findings to be surfaced. Stay safe, stay alive! Peace.

 

[peng]

Anthem should make an unambiguous statement that they are sending a replacement unit, the 70 model or the results are accurate. Denon had clarified issues much more quickly and while I’m certain they are still working with Amir, the time delay makes me feel their customer service and engineering departments are either overworked or lazy.

I wonder why they wouldn't at least publish their own bench test results? For an expensive (relatively) device that the manufacturer claims superiority over other lower priced AVRs including their own, it is reasonable for them to include bench test result to begin so we all can see how much better they actually perform. That way the subjective (go by ears) group don't have to assume more expensive, and because it is so called "separate", such AVPs must "sound" better, hence they really sounded better to the them as often reported on the internet, but perhaps only by the power of Placebo, expectation bias...etc..

 

[danzilla31]

I wonder why they wouldn't at least publish their own bench test results? For an expensive (relatively) device that the manufacturer claims superiority over other lower priced AVRs including their own, it is reasonable for them to include bench test result to begin so we all can see how much better they actually perform. That way the subjective (go by ears) group don't have to assume more expensive, and because it is so called "separate", such AVPs must "sound" better, hence they really sounded better to the them as often reported on the internet, but perhaps only by the power of Placebo, expectation bias...etc..

Probably because they don't want to get called out when a site like this can't replicate they're results. That's a little bit of a harsh conclusion but you and me have talked before Peng about our skepticism about they're amplifiers really delivering they're ratings into lower ohm loads they spec. I was really disappointed in the 60's measurements but as many members here have comforted me on they thankfully for the most part won't be audible.

 

[danzilla31]

I wonder why they wouldn't at least publish their own bench test results? For an expensive (relatively) device that the manufacturer claims superiority over other lower priced AVRs including their own, it is reasonable for them to include bench test result to begin so we all can see how much better they actually perform. That way the subjective (go by ears) group don't have to assume more expensive, and because it is so called "separate", such AVPs must "sound" better, hence they really sounded better to the them as often reported on the internet, but perhaps only by the power of Placebo, expectation bias...etc..

So I'm not crying too much about the measurements just a couple nights sobbing in my pillows I was fine after

 

[Rottmannash]

So I'm not crying too much about the measurements just a couple nights sobbing in my pillows I was fine after

The quantity of tears and duration of crying are in direct proportion to the cost of the item.

 

[danzilla31]

The quantity of tears and duration of crying are in direct proportion to the cost of the item.

Hah hah okay so maybe it was more then just a few nights!!!

 

[Jim - where is The Abyss]

I wonder why they wouldn't at least publish their own bench test results?..

Their volt meter is broken.

 

[krizvi786]

Are you talking about room eqs or just peqs? If you use default room eq curves, for example Dirac or Harman curve, in my experience in my listening room, I will lose "crispness". But you can adjust the curve and get the "crispness" back or even add more "crispness".

I get superior results with full range Dirac room correction. It was love at first "sight" when I first tried it with PC and then started using different Dirac hardware units. Imaging improvements with regular speakers reminds me what I used to get with Martin Logan panels.

what curve do you use w full range dirac?

 

[TimoJ]

what curve do you use w full range dirac?

Custom curve. Bass is boosted 6dB, 110Hz is cut -1.5dB, 8Khz is boosted 1.7dB. Looks like this: