Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[Dimifoot]

Mono recordings typically dual mono, but I suppose a purist would use a gramophone!

Exactly!
I am not that kind, I prefer musical enjoyment . I listen to immersive/multichannel music and I upmix all vintage formats (Mono-Stereo) to Auro3d (Auromatic).
I don’t care if a black and white tv is “better” in reproducing black and white movies. I prefer OLEDs

 

[rccarguy]

Exactly!
I am not that kind, I prefer musical enjoyment . I listen to immersive/multichannel music and I upmix all vintage formats (Mono-Stereo) to Auro3d (Auromatic).
I don’t care if a black and white tv is “better” in reproducing black and white movies. I prefer OLEDs

Reducing colour to zero on a colour TV for black and white movies does seem more pure, I guess since.my TV isn't professional calibrated.. when you set colour to zero greys are more grey but with colour to my normal level there is some tint/colour in there

 

[SimpleTheater]

@amirm It’s been quite a while since you told us Anthem was planning to respond to this review/ send another unit/ send a different unit. Can we have a hint? Such a delay makes me think Anthem is scrambling trying to find a golden unit to send you. Sound United had updates within 24 hours after the Marantz/Denon reviews.

 

[tparm]

I can tell you that I am absolutely in love with my new system which is the Revel f328BE driven by the A110 and Benchmark AHB2 streaming from Tidal, Node 2i and Gustard X16 DAC, I am totally digging it and could not be happier! Streaming has opened up a whole new world of music for me, I've basically retired all my albums and CD's. Sitting on the couch picking music from my Ipad is so cool I'm still amazed at it.

So wait, I missed this part of your post; you have your Node running through the X16? That is bad ass..... So it goes a little something like this; Tidal Connect (or BluOS app) to Node, MQA unfolded, coax to X16, X16 analog to Denon (RCA or XLR to RCA?), listen in Pure Direct (no Audyssey or digitizing of the signal) and in two channel you are getting the benefit of he AHB2. Brilliant.

I currently use a Node and Tidal as well, but via coax and I have been using room correction for even 2Ch listening. I'd have to see which I like better. I may also consider a mono amp for center channel as I watch more movies than you (or perhaps a Nord - 3CH - equivalent @amirm suggestion?).

This is super cool and thanks for sharing.

 

[amirm]

@amirm It’s been quite a while since you told us Anthem was planning to respond to this review/ send another unit/ send a different unit. Can we have a hint? Such a delay makes me think Anthem is scrambling trying to find a golden unit to send you. Sound United had updates within 24 hours after the Marantz/Denon reviews.

We are still taking but nothing i can share just yet.

 

[da Choge]

Revel f328BE driven by the A110 and Benchmark AHB2

Already love your choice of front-end speakers and pre/amps (both the A110 and AHB2). You have the setup I WANT for my living room. I also considered the Anthem STRs, but you can't beat the Benchmark's. Way to go!

 

[symphara]

Have you ever heard music recorded in immersive formats (Atmos or Auro3d)?

I have, I'm not that much of a fan.

I have multi-channel music recordings where the music is played from all channels, which is a strange (and not that pleasant) experience, since we don't really expect the be in the middle of the orchestra/band and hear some guitar, drum or violin over the shoulder.

I have multi-channel music recordings where the additional channels are used for creating ambience. This is fine but at the end of the day just a distraction. It simply doesn't add much.

Upmixing 2-channel sources to surround sound is something that I do on my computer speakers, sometimes. On the main system, the sound degradation is so obvious that I avoid it altogether.

Your Atmos/Auro3D immersive formats are for me the equivalent of watching 3D movies with glasses. There's a wow factor there but it's rather tiresome, degrades the picture quality for a gimmick, it's certainly niche, and I definitely wouldn't want it for everything or even too frequently.

 

[Dimifoot]

Your Atmos/Auro3D immersive formats are for me the equivalent of watching 3D movies with glasses.

For me it's not.

As human beings we are used to sound coming from all directions. Even on music events, we hear ambience reflections from the sides, above and back.
These can be recorded and reproduced, with direct sound (not reflected) in multichannel music. Thats reality, not a gimmick.

And yes, there are some recordings that put you in the Conductors seat (I have some from 2L recordings) , so music -and not reflections- comes from all around. Thats an artistic point of view, that you subjectively might like or not. Understandable.

In vintage 1 or 2 channel formats, you depend on your random room reflections to create a random pseudo-envelopment, that's unique for your room and not reproducible in any other random room.

From my experience, people that have unbalanced multichannel systems, with very small center speakers in comparison to their L-R, very small surrounds or from different brands/series, grossly uneven distances from speakers, poorly calibrated or using inferior software , tend to dislike multichannel reproduction. As expected.

On the other hand @Floyd Toole loves it, even upmixing, and that is something for everyone to consider.

 

[symphara]

For me it's not.

As human beings we are used to sound coming from all directions. Even on music events, we hear ambience reflections from the sides, above and back.
These can be recorded and reproduced, with direct sound (not reflected) in multichannel music. Thats reality, not a gimmick.

And yes, there are some recordings that put you in the Conductors seat (I have some from 2L recordings) , so music -and not reflections- comes from all around. Thats an artistic point of view, that you subjectively might like or not. Understandable.

In vintage 1 or 2 channel formats, you depend on your random room reflections to create a random pseudo-envelopment, that's unique for your room and not reproducible in any other random room.

From my experience, people that have unbalanced multichannel systems, with very small center speakers in comparison to their L-R, very small surrounds or from different brands/series, grossly uneven distances from speakers, poorly calibrated or using inferior software , tend to dislike multichannel reproduction. As expected.

On the other hand @Floyd Toole loves it, even upmixing, and that is something for everyone to consider.

Not my situation - the center channel is big (it has the same drivers as front LR), big bookshelf surrounds, listening position is dead-on center and perfectly symmetrical on LR. The audio quality is very good, both for stereo and multi-channel.

I just prefer normal stereo, not because I'm a hillbilly with a poor system who cannot appreciate multichannel audio..

I've listened to all my SACDs and DVD-As in multichannel and stereo, and my firm conclusion is that surround audio is a gimmick useful mostly for impressing people. In normal listening it's tiresome and distracting. And upmixing stereo to surround is a big no-no for me.

 

[Dimifoot]

I've listened to all my SACDs and DVD-As in multichannel and stereo, and my firm conclusion is that surround audio is a gimmick useful mostly for impressing people. In normal listening it's tiresome and distracting. And upmixing stereo to surround is a big no-no for me.

Well, @Floyd Toole disagrees. I will take his opinion over yours

 

[symphara]

Well, @Floyd Toole disagrees. I will take his opinion over yours

I'm not trying to impose my listening preferences on you in the slightest. Frankly, I don't care either way that you listen to multichannel music or not, it's your thing.

I merely reacted to your rather impolite way of describing your listening habit as the only valid one, and casting aspersions on those who disagree with you as having not experienced your thing (we have), not having proper audio systems like you (we do) etc. Just take it as an "agree to disagree" and move on.

I'm not sure what @Floyd Toole has to do with it. Somebody's preference is just not relevant to me. If I hadn't experienced it, I would certainly look into it if pointed by somebody else, but I have - in spades - so that's that. I'll add that I recently ripped all the SACDs, having discovered one wonderful "feature" of my old Oppo player, and it took me basically no time to decide it was going to be the stereo mix that got saved.

 

[walt99]

So wait, I missed this part of your post; you have your Node running through the X16? That is bad ass..... So it goes a little something like this; Tidal Connect (or BluOS app) to Node, MQA unfolded, coax to X16, X16 analog to Denon (RCA or XLR to RCA?), listen in Pure Direct (no Audyssey or digitizing of the signal) and in two channel you are getting the benefit of he AHB2. Brilliant.

I currently use a Node and Tidal as well, but via coax and I have been using room correction for even 2Ch listening. I'd have to see which I like better. I may also consider a mono amp for center channel as I watch more movies than you (or perhaps a Nord - 3CH - equivalent @amirm suggestion?).

This is super cool and thanks for sharing.

That is correct, the Node 2i does the first MQA unfold which is output via coax to the X16 which does the rest of the unfold, and yes RCA from the X16 to RCA of the A110. If you just run the coax from the Node to the prepro then you won't get the full MQA unfold.

I'm not sure there would be much to be gained by using an external amp for the center/surrounds, my movie listening is not as critical as my music listening and I think the dynamics of movie audio would mask any slight increase in noise from the internal amps.

As for XLR, it appears from the review that Anthem added the XLR simply for 'Bling' so it could look the part of a "high end" processor when the performance was actually worse than the RCA outputs.

The A110/8500 has no XLR inputs/outputs which is ok by me, it would have been nice if they provided a true balanced output for the L/R to drive the AHB2 but no big deal as my cable runs are all under 6'. I did purchase speaker and XLR/RCA cables from Benchmark, even though I've often made my own cables the quality of the Benchmark cables is very high at what I thought was a very reasonable price. I can't believe how many folks fall for the exotic cable marketing hype. Benchmark gets an A+ rating in my book for quality/value products.

 

[SimpleTheater]

We are still taking but nothing i can share just yet.

Appreciate the response Amir.

I will say that the Bagby's aren't the best business people. To let this sit out here for 30 days, when a simple Google search for 'Anthem AVM 60' returns this review with the headless panther in the top 10 of results, is simply mind boggling. Maybe I'm wrong and AVRs/PrePros are a super small portion of their business, thus the huge markup on these products, but I would argue that a higher percentage of buyers of expensive equipment like this spend a bit more time researching than someone looking at BestBuy for a sub $1k 7.1 AVR from Yamaha/Denon/etc.

In the world of marketing, if you let something sit too long with one narrative, that narrative eventually sticks. The Bagby's better hope it only sticks to the AVM 60 and a certain percentage of potential customers simply move on to competitors who don't get headless panthers.

 

[tparm]

That is correct, the Node 2i does the first MQA unfold which is output via coax to the X16 which does the rest of the unfold, and yes RCA from the X16 to RCA of the A110. If you just run the coax from the Node to the prepro then you won't get the full MQA unfold.

I have never heard this before....How is that possible? Simply because the Denon doesn't have onboard MQA capability? Did you consider the Topping D90 MQA (so limited availability) or just go with the X16 based on measurements? I tend to like the less analytical (perhaps less audiophile) signature of the AKM DACs, just curious.

 

[Dimifoot]

to your rather impolite way

I am not sure what you mean here. Why impolite?

I'm not sure what @Floyd Toole has to do with it.

If you read his book you will understand. Or even his recent posts on forums: (example)
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/jbl-m2-master-reference-monitor.1454077/post-58406464
“However, for the life of me I don't know why in 2019 you are regressing to two channels, when there is an ever increasing supply of excellent multichannel music, video concerts and movies. Most music is delivered in stereo format - unfortunately - but adding tasteful upmixing in 5.1, 7.1 or immersive systems is, in my experience, a significant improvement on raw stereo. It varies from recording to recording, of course. Currently I find Auro-3D upmixing to be highly rewarding, and it allows for subtle adjustments.”

Somebody's preference is just not relevant to me.

Toole is not “somebody”. His views are well documented.

 

[walt99]

I have never heard this before....How is that possible? Simply because the Denon doesn't have onboard MQA capability? Did you consider the Topping D90 MQA (so limited availability) or just go with the X16 based on measurements? I tend to like the less analytical (perhaps less audiophile) signature of the AKM DACs, just curious.

Smarter folks than me have figured that out, I just spent the hours/days researching to sort it all out.
I chose the X16 mainly based on Amirs review, the D90 MQA would certainly have been a top contender but is also cost hundreds more. I'm not a big fan of purchasing/returning things just to compare so I just went with the X16, I think it sounds great. Doubt I could have heard the difference between the D90/X16 anyway.

 

[tparm]

Smarter folks than me have figured that out, I just spent the hours/days researching to sort it all out.
I chose the X16 mainly based on Amirs review, the D90 MQA would certainly have been a top contender but is also cost hundreds more. I'm not a big fan of purchasing/returning things just to compare so I just went with the X16, I think it sounds great. Doubt I could have heard the difference between the D90/X16 anyway.

Makes sense and thanks again. I think that about covers it for me as far as questions go.

 

[yanm]

Appreciate the response Amir.

I will say that the Bagby's aren't the best business people. To let this sit out here for 30 days, when a simple Google search for 'Anthem AVM 60' returns this review with the headless panther in the top 10 of results, is simply mind boggling. Maybe I'm wrong and AVRs/PrePros are a super small portion of their business, thus the huge markup on these products, but I would argue that a higher percentage of buyers of expensive equipment like this spend a bit more time researching than someone looking at BestBuy for a sub $1k 7.1 AVR from Yamaha/Denon/etc.

In the world of marketing, if you let something sit too long with one narrative, that narrative eventually sticks. The Bagby's better hope it only sticks to the AVM 60 and a certain percentage of potential customers simply move on to competitors who don't get headless panthers.

This.

I’m not in the market for a new AVR or pre-pro (the MRX 720 is still doing its job, and I’m pretty happy about it except the Play-Fi thingy). But if I were looking for a new AVR I would likely skip Anthem and go for a Denon after reading this review and for the lack of reaction from the company (even though I would very much doubt that Anthem’s owners would step in because of this review). Funny thing is that my first choice five years ago was Denon but I ended with Anthem because the Denon AVR were too deep for my cabinet ... so Anthem may still be the default choice

 

[tparm]

Smarter folks than me have figured that out, I just spent the hours/days researching to sort it all out.
I chose the X16 mainly based on Amirs review, the D90 MQA would certainly have been a top contender but is also cost hundreds more. I'm not a big fan of purchasing/returning things just to compare so I just went with the X16, I think it sounds great. Doubt I could have heard the difference between the D90/X16 anyway.

Ordered my X16.... That's the beauty and the beast of forums, I didn't know I needed one! Time to make a cable pair.

 

[walt99]

Ordered my X16.... That's the beauty and the beast of forums, I didn't know I needed one! Time to make a cable pair.

If Amir was smart he would figure out how to capture some of the revenue we send to some of these vendors as a result of his reviews!!
(of course that might get deducted from the loss of revenue from some other vendors)