7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM Review

[InfiniteJester]

Well, I did't check on Crin's site, his BK5128 measurements are surely most reliable, especially in the treble area:

View attachment 351979

Anyway that was just to get an idea of the FR differences between the 2 iems that surely impact spatial and imaging perception.

They are pretty close, to be fair; one can't argue with that. Maybe the differences I hear come mostly from how deeper the FH9s sit in my ears, because I get much more bass from the FH9s with default tuning; which seems to contradict the graphs.

You can get an idea of how much deeper one sits compared to the other with this picture:

Also, I don't think that the semi-open back can be measured with FR.

 

[mc.god]

You can get an idea of how much deeper one sits compared to the other with this picture:

Nozzle angle vs ear canal is another crucial factor that is not often kept in consideration.

Also, I don't think that the semi-open back can be measured with FR.

All of these anyway fall into those "hardly measurable points contributing in forming our subjective experience with IEMs and HPs" i was referring earlier.

 

[markanini]

Also, I don't think that the semi-open back can be measured with FR.

Can you elaborate? Virtually all IEMs have a closed back, with venting holes to equalize pressure.

Your other points I tend to agree with, the coupler is not aware how the IEM sits in your ear and this will have a real impact on FR. If not for this then IEMs would sound indistinguishable when EQ'd to the same target, but not one reports that.

 

[InfiniteJester]

Can you elaborate? Virtually all IEMs have a closed back, with venting holes to equalize pressure.

Your other points I tend to agree with, the coupler is not aware how the IEM sits in your ear and this will have a real impact on FR. If not for this then IEMs would sound indistinguishable when EQ'd to the same target, but not one reports that.

The FH9s seem to block noise way less than the Zero:2. I assumed that this was because of the alleged semi-open back on the FH9s. Background noise is, as far as I know, associated with better soundstage. That is why I almost only buy open headphones.

I don't know what's marketing and what it isn't anymore, judge by yourself if this makes sense.

But, for example, if I generate an 8kHz tone in the speaker and I wear the two IEMs at once, at certain volumes, I can only hear said tone in the ear where I'm wearing the FH9.

I used the same Comply tips in both monitors to rule out tips as confounders.

 

[CedarX]

I use the treble filter, though. Which, according to the source you provided, doesn't change things much, but I don't think that that is true. And that makes me doubt the measuring.

Some small differences in critical/sensitive areas, whether it is FR, distortion (other?) can be audible. I would not “doubt” the measurements, but question the interpretation.
Dialing a scientifically proven target is like adjusting the focus on a camera: now you can see these small differences and determine if they matter to you or not…

 

[CedarX]

Also, I don't think that the semi-open back can be measured with FR.

Fiio’s own verbiage talks about balancing pressure:

I don’t think it’s the same as (semi) open back headphones

 

[InfiniteJester]

Some small differences in critical/sensitive areas, whether it is FR, distortion (other?) can be audible. I would not “doubt” the measurements, but question the interpretation.
Dialing a scientifically proven target is like adjusting the focus on a camera: now you can see these small differences and determine if they matter to you or not…

Fair enough. I believed that the differences between filters were bigger, but I was certainly wrong.

Fiio’s own verbiage talks about balancing pressure:
View attachment 352014

I don’t think it’s the same as (semi) open back headphones

Yes, I quoted the same paragraph. That is why I don't know. But they seem to isolate noise very poorly. Not as poorly as an open-back Hifiman, for example, but worse than the Zero:2s.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Is it me? Is it the Harmon Curve? Or are these 'phones defective.

These arrived yesterday (from Amazon.ca) and I took my first listen this morning: TERRIBLE Hideously bright and unlistenable. Funny, but the Harmon Curve has a distinct boost of mid-treble -- should I have expected the brightness I'm hearing?

Probably worth mentioning the I prefer Classical music in general, but these 'phone make everything sound pretty bad.

Your comments?

 

[staticV3]

Is it me? Is it the Harmon Curve? Or are these 'phones defective.

These arrived yesterday (from Amazon.ca) and I took my first listen this morning: TERRIBLE Hideously bright and unlistenable. Funny, but the Harmon Curve has a distinct boost of mid-treble -- should I have expected the brightness I'm hearing?

Probably worth mentioning the I prefer Classical music in general, but these 'phone make everything sound pretty bad.

Your comments?

It's spelled Harman, and sounds like you're not getting a proper seal.

 

[Matias]

Is it me? Is it the Harmon Curve? Or are these 'phones defective.

These arrived yesterday (from Amazon.ca) and I took my first listen this morning: TERRIBLE Hideously bright and unlistenable. Funny, but the Harmon Curve has a distinct boost of mid-treble -- should I have expected the brightness I'm hearing?

Probably worth mentioning the I prefer Classical music in general, but these 'phone make everything sound pretty bad.

Your comments?

The first thing is that "bright" IEMs usually mean bad sealing and no bass. So first try other tips and pushing or moving the IEM to see if you get a proper seal. Bass should be plenty and deep.

Second, these are tuned close to a tilted diffuse field response. Means they sound similar to a good speaker in a room with the added natural gain the human ear has. So ignore the hump on the raw FR you see, when everything is compensated, it sounds like this below, so extra bassy.

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Hawaii Bad Boy

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

hbb.squig.link

 

[markanini]

Is it me? Is it the Harmon Curve? Or are these 'phones defective.

These arrived yesterday (from Amazon.ca) and I took my first listen this morning: TERRIBLE Hideously bright and unlistenable. Funny, but the Harmon Curve has a distinct boost of mid-treble -- should I have expected the brightness I'm hearing?

Probably worth mentioning the I prefer Classical music in general, but these 'phone make everything sound pretty bad.

Your comments?

Are you sure you are getting good seal? This is not a given considering that nozzles are relatively shallow and you complain about thin sound.

 

[InfiniteJester]

Is it me? Is it the Harmon Curve? Or are these 'phones defective.

These arrived yesterday (from Amazon.ca) and I took my first listen this morning: TERRIBLE Hideously bright and unlistenable. Funny, but the Harmon Curve has a distinct boost of mid-treble -- should I have expected the brightness I'm hearing?

Probably worth mentioning the I prefer Classical music in general, but these 'phone make everything sound pretty bad.

Your comments?

It is Harman; Harmon is the guy who wrote Community and Rick and Morty using a system based on Joseph Campbell that allowed him to write the same exact episode hundreds of times with small variations and to trick everyone into believing that he was a genius while getting rich and harassing women in the process.

 

[DSJR]

Has anyone here used the Zero and Zero 2 from an old fashioned amp headphone socket - the type with a 300 ohm or so inline resistor tapped off the power amp? I tried with the Zero original the other night and had to switch off as even with my bad hearing, the sound in the mid highs was screamingly toppy. Last night, I tried the same track with my old trusty HD25SP's and the 'tone' was far more manageable, accepting that these aren't the last word in neutrality.

Both Zero and Zero 2 used off my laptop via an Apple dongle - no problem tonally!

 

[markanini]

Has anyone here used the Zero and Zero 2 from an old fashioned amp headphone socket - the type with a 300 ohm or so inline resistor tapped off the power amp? I tried with the Zero original the other night and had to switch off as even with my bad hearing, the sound in the mid highs was screamingly toppy. Last night, I tried the same track with my old trusty HD25SP's and the 'tone' was far more manageable, accepting that these aren't the last word in neutrality.

Both Zero and Zero 2 used off my laptop via an Apple dongle - no problem tonally!

It's probably reacting with the 3kHz bump in the impedance graph.

 

[Gorgonzola]

The first thing is that "bright" IEMs usually mean bad sealing and no bass. So first try other tips and pushing or moving the IEM to see if you get a proper seal. Bass should be plenty and deep.

Second, these are tuned close to a tilted diffuse field response. Means they sound similar to a good speaker in a room with the added natural gain the human ear gain has. So ignore the hump on the raw FR you see, when everything is compensated, it sounds like this below, so extra bassy.

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Hawaii Bad Boy

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

hbb.squig.link

Thanks, @Matias, and other respondents. Of course: Harman, not Harmon.

I used the longest/deepest ear pieces and felt they were well-inserted but I have tried again.

2nd listen with 'phone inserted to maximum extent possible ... definitely better but still noticeably bright and slightly "honky" sounding ... perhaps they need some of that supposedly unnecessary "burn-in". Initially not to my taste but I'll defer judgement pending a couple more tries.

 

[Laserjock]

Thanks, @Matias, and other respondents. Of course: Harman, not Harmon.

I used the longest/deepest ear pieces and felt they were well-inserted but I have tried again.

2nd listen with 'phone inserted to maximum extent possible ... definitely better but still noticeably bright and slightly "honky" sounding ... perhaps they need some "burn-in". Initially not to my taste but I'll defer judgement pending a couple more tries.

I had the same issue at first. The Truthear Blue were my first IEM and really like them.
These 7 Hz Zero 2 seemed like something I would like but I think my physical ear canal didn’t seem to match up to the stock tips and I ordered some others mentioned here.

I haven’t tried them yet.

 

[CedarX]

Thanks, @Matias, and other respondents. Of course: Harman, not Harmon.

I used the longest/deepest ear pieces and felt they were well-inserted but I have tried again.

2nd listen with 'phone inserted to maximum extent possible ... definitely better but still noticeably bright and slightly "honky" sounding ... perhaps they need some of that supposedly unnecessary "burn-in". Initially not to my taste but I'll defer judgement pending a couple more tries.

I often have seal problems with IEMS. In my case, inserting them deeper--when possible, as sometime the IEM shell hurts my ears before I could push them deeper--does not always result in better seal with silicon tips. I think they may "fold over" somewhat when inserted deeper. Going a smaller size may work sometime, but I have better success with aftermarket XL-size tips (Spinfit's work for me) and not trying to push the IEM deeper.
It's an annoying trial and error process with every IEM, but as other have hinted, getting a good seal is a day & night difference in sound!

 

[SteveL]

If you look through some of Amir's headphone reviews, it's not uncommon for even highly regarded headphones to be shockingly deficient in the upper midrange. Someone who is used to that kind of response is likely to find a Harman-compliant IEM overly bright. And it's hard to break into the circle of confusion with highly processed pop music recordings. My gold standard is the sound of live classical music (which is brighter, eg. the sound of an orchestra violin section, than many non-classical listeners might realize). If a recording of known high quality (which is generally the case nowadays) is reproduced with convincingly natural timbre, I know I have equipment that does what I want. Having said all that, if you're not getting plenty of bass with something like a Zero 2 you definitely don't have a good seal.

 

[markanini]

If you look through some of Amir's headphone reviews, it's not uncommon for even highly regarded headphones to be shockingly deficient in the upper midrange. Someone who is used to that kind of response is likely to find a Harman-compliant IEM overly bright. And it's hard to break into the circle of confusion with highly processed pop music recordings. My gold standard is the sound of live classical music (which is brighter, eg. the sound of an orchestra violin section, than many non-classical listeners might realize). If a recording of known high quality (which is generally the case nowadays) is reproduced with convincingly natural timbre, I know I have equipment that does what I want. Having said all that, if you're not getting plenty of bass with something like a Zero 2 you definitely don't have a good seal.

Sorry, but inductive reasoning is making you say something that doesn't add up. If strict compliance Harman worked as intended then pop and orchestral recordings would sound the same as on speakers, not worse, and not better.

 

[SteveL]

Sorry, but inductive reasoning is making you say something that doesn't add up. If strict compliance Harman worked as intended then pop and orchestral recordings would sound the same as on speakers, not worse, and not better.

They do to me (well not pop music which I don't listen to). But not any speakers I can afford in my small oddly configured living room, rather the really good setups I have occasionally had the chance to hear. Furthermore, that's exactly what Sean Olive and his team were aiming for- both headphones and IEMs should produce subjectively the same sensation as speakers with a flat anechoic response playing in a well-treated room. The preference curves reflect the consensus of their test subjects on the FR that achieves that goal. So it does "work as intended" and my own auditory system agrees that it does.