watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Steel drums anyone?
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B&W 800 D3 vs KEF Blade. Let's discuss.
- Thread starter bandit
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Steel drums anyone?
They sounded amazing. Incredibly accurate and house rattling bass. I listened to some Wilson audio speakers and Audio Research gear (guessing $200,000 +) and it sounded really really close to the Marantz gear and Blades. I think why I went back to the C2’s was mostly because most of my listening is off center. The Blades somehow required me to listen in the zone. I found myself actually listening to less music when I had them. It sounds strange but that’s what happened. That and I made $4,000 when I sold them sealed the deal.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I'm always surprised when people say things like this.
I'm not making any kind of better / worse judgment, but I almost never think one pair of speakers sounds really close to another speaker unless they're from the same brand.
Especially when it comes to big statement speakers.
So I'm a bit head scratching when I read that Wilsons and Blades sound really close to each other.
The same song played with 2 different systems sounded really similar. Super accurate but almost to the point of being sterile.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Which Wilsons?
Wilson Audio
Series 2 MAXX
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Maybe your hearing is way better than mine
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Frequency response wise, I'm nothing special for my age and have nothing, really, above 15k these days.
But I do play musical instruments, which helps in terms of being a trained listener.
Pearljam5000
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Then why are Genelecs made out of aluminum?
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Wood rot in Finnish winters.
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Didn’t really want to make my own thread for this question but since a lot of you guys are active here, and have experience with higher end speakers I did want to propose the question: in this price bracket of 30-50K USD, what else should one seriously, actually consider? I will be in the market for an entirely new system in a few years and I’m just planning ahead. So far I had come up with the following ideas. And before I get into it, please note, I place a lot of importance on being able to audition and see and hear the speakers in person, as well as being able to customize the speakers cabinet and visual looks of the enclosure to my liking. So here we go...
D&D 8C + a up to a half dozen subwoofers. Total cost ~15-40K depending on how crazy high end of subwoofers I wanted to get. I like this option because it allows me to go crazy with the budget on subwoofers, or perhaps invest in a nice digital front end as well. Or just pocket the money! Aesthetically I think this is by far the worst looking speaker of all the brands I’m going to mention going forward.
Kii 3 + BXT Modules. $37K. Subwoofers probably not needed and/or would be difficult or perhaps redundant(?) to implement with the BXT modules. If someone could confirm please. I like this option because I think it’s aesthetically very pleasing and I can order them in my favourite color + automotive finish: Lantana Purple.
ATC SCM150ASLT. $33K. The domestic (non pro) active version of the ATC SCM150; floor standing. I admit I’ve bought into the “cult” of British engineering at least so far as ATC is concerned (thanks @Ilkless ) Personally I think they are extraordinary speakers what with the option to choose them in ANY finish. In my case, if I get them, I’d get them in a walnut burl; high gloss polish finish. I think they would look simply stunning! And certainly sound great. One clear advantage the ATC has over any of the previously mentioned speakers is the fact it relies on its “tripack” amps, which, from what I’ve been told, are exceedingly simple to operate on for servicing in the event of equipment failure. As well, there are many reports of ATC active being in the field for decades before needing servicing. So the reliability is already established. Contrast that with the class d modules used in the Kii and D&D. And who knows the availability of the specific icepower amps used in them. It could be a natural progression for me to go for the ATC considering what speakers I currently own and what I would he replacing them with. I love big, bulky looking boxes. I love exotic and exquisite wood grain finishes. And I like big drivers and big dynamics. This is something I value highly and why I’m leaning slightly towards ATC over the previous options.
Lastly, and certainly not least, there is what I consider what is possibly the most exciting of all of the speakers I’ve talked about, and it’s the line of speakers from Geithain. What is exciting about them to me is they combine the European innovations that the D&D and Kii speakers offer, but in the large, boxy looking cabinets that I love about ATC. That, and they also use 15” drivers! More dynamics is always better. The problem with Geithain is they have absolutely zero presence in North America. In fact, I have emailed them and they told me I would need to speak to them directly if I wanted to order anything as they have no worldwide distributors. All of the other above mentioned speakers I would be able to audition first. Perhaps it doesn’t matter because like the D&D and like the Kii, the goal of these speakers is to use their suite of tools (DSP and cardioid designs) to improve the listening experience. I haven’t been able to dive into the Geithain speakers much yet but it does appear they are taking a more mechanical approach and don’t use DSP.
And of course, there’s always the passives options to consider... despite all the attention we on ASR, and I, give to actives, there is an allure to people like me to gravitate to the “high end” of passives. Wilson, Vivid, Magico, Yg, etc. These companies all make speakers in the $30-50K bracket. And I have been considering speakers from these brands. For the purposes of this post and potential discussion, I’d like to focus discussion on the active speakers I’ve mentioned so far. And obviously I’m willing to consider other active options like Genelic and KH Neumann and I’d be mad to not audition them alongside everything else. But they are at the bottom of my list because aesthetically I can’t stomach them.
D&D 8C + a up to a half dozen subwoofers. Total cost ~15-40K depending on how crazy high end of subwoofers I wanted to get. I like this option because it allows me to go crazy with the budget on subwoofers, or perhaps invest in a nice digital front end as well. Or just pocket the money! Aesthetically I think this is by far the worst looking speaker of all the brands I’m going to mention going forward.
Kii 3 + BXT Modules. $37K. Subwoofers probably not needed and/or would be difficult or perhaps redundant(?) to implement with the BXT modules. If someone could confirm please. I like this option because I think it’s aesthetically very pleasing and I can order them in my favourite color + automotive finish: Lantana Purple.
ATC SCM150ASLT. $33K. The domestic (non pro) active version of the ATC SCM150; floor standing. I admit I’ve bought into the “cult” of British engineering at least so far as ATC is concerned (thanks @Ilkless ) Personally I think they are extraordinary speakers what with the option to choose them in ANY finish. In my case, if I get them, I’d get them in a walnut burl; high gloss polish finish. I think they would look simply stunning! And certainly sound great. One clear advantage the ATC has over any of the previously mentioned speakers is the fact it relies on its “tripack” amps, which, from what I’ve been told, are exceedingly simple to operate on for servicing in the event of equipment failure. As well, there are many reports of ATC active being in the field for decades before needing servicing. So the reliability is already established. Contrast that with the class d modules used in the Kii and D&D. And who knows the availability of the specific icepower amps used in them. It could be a natural progression for me to go for the ATC considering what speakers I currently own and what I would he replacing them with. I love big, bulky looking boxes. I love exotic and exquisite wood grain finishes. And I like big drivers and big dynamics. This is something I value highly and why I’m leaning slightly towards ATC over the previous options.
Lastly, and certainly not least, there is what I consider what is possibly the most exciting of all of the speakers I’ve talked about, and it’s the line of speakers from Geithain. What is exciting about them to me is they combine the European innovations that the D&D and Kii speakers offer, but in the large, boxy looking cabinets that I love about ATC. That, and they also use 15” drivers! More dynamics is always better. The problem with Geithain is they have absolutely zero presence in North America. In fact, I have emailed them and they told me I would need to speak to them directly if I wanted to order anything as they have no worldwide distributors. All of the other above mentioned speakers I would be able to audition first. Perhaps it doesn’t matter because like the D&D and like the Kii, the goal of these speakers is to use their suite of tools (DSP and cardioid designs) to improve the listening experience. I haven’t been able to dive into the Geithain speakers much yet but it does appear they are taking a more mechanical approach and don’t use DSP.
And of course, there’s always the passives options to consider... despite all the attention we on ASR, and I, give to actives, there is an allure to people like me to gravitate to the “high end” of passives. Wilson, Vivid, Magico, Yg, etc. These companies all make speakers in the $30-50K bracket. And I have been considering speakers from these brands. For the purposes of this post and potential discussion, I’d like to focus discussion on the active speakers I’ve mentioned so far. And obviously I’m willing to consider other active options like Genelic and KH Neumann and I’d be mad to not audition them alongside everything else. But they are at the bottom of my list because aesthetically I can’t stomach them.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I definitely wouldn't go with ATC.
They've fallen massively behind in technology and are stuck in a rut because their professional fan base doesn't want them to move away from active analog crossovers and AB amps.
And the famous midrange driver, while it can handle huge amounts of power without distorting, can be pretty brutal on regular recordings.
Lastly, take a look at the FR curves...
I was a big fan 20 years ago, but they haven't kept up.
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Pearljam5000
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They actually sound pretty nice
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Sometimes they sound nice.
Sometimes they tear your face off.
Of course a dealer is going to pick the material that flatters them.
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I know SCM150ASL's don't measure as flawlessly as KH Neumann or Genelic, so by any metric they are clearly behind in technology.
What do you mean by the statement the midrange driver can be brutal? If you're talking about the fact that its neutral and has massively low distortion, I mean, thats kind of why I love my JBL 4367 and is a positive in my book. I think the Genelic and KH neumann big boys are also "brutal" with regular recordings by this logic.
I am not good at reading graphs, but this curve link doesn't look too horrible to me and looks to meet their stated spec of +-2dB 60Hz-17kHz. Again, Not state of the art, but at least I can get it in any finish I want. And it certainly measures quite a bit better then any Wilson or Avantgarde speaker. Both brands which I am quite fond of and I think can sound wonderful.
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I can't stand this YT channel lol. He hypes up audiophile speaker cables and power cords. And his sound demos don't even sound good. Boomy, like he's recording the audio in the middle of a room node. I don't trust a word he says!
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I'm actually talking about the fact that it's not so neutral, although it's very low distortion.
Read some of the Sound on Sound reviews of their pro monitors.
It's "revealing", which can be good if you're mixing and mastering, but can also lead to listener fatigue, especially if the recording is iffy.
I've worked them in person a fair amount in symphony control rooms, although never owned them.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
By modern standards, this is not very good.
Amir also gave the smaller monitors a not-so-good review.
Amir also gave the smaller monitors a not-so-good review.
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