B&W 800 D3 vs KEF Blade. Let's discuss.

[prerich]

I fall right into the category of the ignorant audiophiles Are you suggesting that their design translates into poor performance? If so, could you kindly mention how? Thanks

Revels consistently measure well and sound amazing. It's getting to the point that they don't make a speaker that doesn't pass the measurement test.

 

[watchnerd]

Revels consistently measure well and sound amazing. It's getting to the point that they don't make a speaker that doesn't pass the measurement test.

I agree they measure well.

I've never thought they sounded 'amazing', though. They sound balanced and make a lot of smart compromises, but I've never emotionally bonded with they way they present music.

 

[MattHooper]

I agree they measure well.

I've never thought they sounded 'amazing', though. They sound balanced and make a lot of smart compromises, but I've never emotionally bonded with they way they present music.

Same here. I respect 'em but don't seem to love 'em.

 

[maverickronin]

I don't usually have strong feelings about this, but the Performa series are also just about ugliest speakers I've ever seen.

The snowman-shaped black plastic trim that envelops the waveguide and the woofers is unappealing even when the cabinets are black, but becomes hideous when the cabs are a different color.

 

[MattHooper]

I don't usually have strong feelings about this, but the Performa series are also just about ugliest speakers I've ever seen.

The snowman-shaped black plastic trim that envelops the waveguide and the woofers is unappealing even when the cabinets are black, but becomes hideous when the cabs are a different color.

Agreed about the look of the drivers.

But I find with the grills on, hiding that aesthetic nightmare, they become very handsome speakers.

Then again, I tend to prefer the look of speakers with grills on. I like the neater look.

 

[maverickronin]

But I find with the grills on, hiding that aesthetic nightmare, they become very handsome speakers.

If you have to put a bag over its head...

 

[MattHooper]

If you have to put a bag over its head...

Ha, well if you like looking at speaker drivers I guess you can feel that way.

I just don't find anything particularly attractive about the vast majority of speaker drivers. Too industrial. Sort of like exposed plumbing.
I like a speaker that has been designed to look good with grills on (especially where the grills are inset and thus flat with the speaker line).

It also helps me "forget" the speakers as the source of the sound. When I'm seeing speaker drivers my brain can't help mapping the sound to the technology "I can see the tweeter where those high frequencies are coming from, the woofer where the lows are emanating..."

Once a speaker has grills on to me it becomes more like just a piece of nice furniture in the room, around which music is simply appearing. (Especially for speakers that do great soundstaging/imaging)

I know many audiophiles feel differently and love to see every bit of the technology they can. Some of the room set ups, especially over at AVS, I find hilarious (gruesome...actually). Small TV sets flanked by huge colums of drivers horizontally, vertically, subwoofer vats in corners. Looks like a testing facility more than a relaxing room to chill to music (IMO). Especially the DIY subwoofer guys, they can't get enough drivers in a room

 

[Dana]

gg* Says Mr. Michell Engineering about a Clockwork Orange cliche' turntable. They really do make most other turntables look boring and menial though.

Ha! I just bought this TT. It’s definitely more for show than go

 

[Descartes]

I think you’d be surprised if you got a pair. My house isn’t even slightly elegant but I had a pair and I think they fit in well. Upscaled the entire room View attachment 103127

Very nice congratulations looking at them myself!

 

[Jawfxr]

noticing the you're considering B&W ( a combo of generic box + unique design) and the Blades which are unconventional. I'm only addressing the aesthetic right now. if you are considering the best of both worlds then I would invite you to review what has been written and reviewed about both the Vivid Giya and the Estelon brands. Both receive accolades that are rarely given. both are unique in their design but for a reason. The Vivids hark back to the Nautilus concepts and the Estelons incorporate similar engineering parameters. completely different aesthetic that you may love or hate but there's a definite method to their madness. check out the reviews and be prepared to complicate your decision.

 

[Deleted member 30699]

Hi guys, this is my second post on this forum, I know you're more science oriented so I apologise for posting something more shallow. I am by no means being lazy but I cannot read a measurements graph and I am therefore asking for your help to decide which, in your opinion, are the better speakers between the two I have mentioned.
I have read a very positive review on the KEF R3, posted by Amir. This does not imply that their higher models are equally well performing but it shed some light on a brand which I had previously not considered. I am planning on buying my lifetime speakers (we all know this is never the case) and I am really undecided between the 800 D3 and the Blades, does anyone feel like helping me out? I have not seen much love for B&W on this forum, which I previously considered to be among the best speaker brands on the market, can anyone elaborate on why this isn't the case? Thank you in advance everyone!

I realize this is quite an old post but - owing B&W 800 Diamonds and new active 'reference' speakers - I'd like add a few considerations.
Active speakers can compensate (within limits) for physical deficiencies of their drivers and can get better measurements.
However, few buy a $30k speaker purely for audio quality. Design matters a lot - and usually the partner has a say here as well.

Then, all measurements are subject to interpretation. Even if a speaker does not measure 'perfectly', one can still get high quality with room placement. In fact, the room tends to a play large role in sound quality that can only be compensated in part with room correction (at your listening position or average of multiple positions).

On a subjective note, I tend to ocd over my active speakers with linearity, perfection, etc. but when it is time to enjoy music, I turn on my B&W.
I think the only real way to decide between the mentioned speakers - 800 and blade - is to audition them. They are different enough in sound and design that anyone likely has a clear preference.

Good Luck!

 

[Descartes]

I realize this is quite an old post but - owing B&W 800 Diamonds and new active 'reference' speakers - I'd like add a few considerations.
Active speakers can compensate (within limits) for physical deficiencies of their drivers and can get better measurements.
However, few buy a $30k speaker purely for audio quality. Design matters a lot - and usually the partner has a say here as well.

Then, all measurements are subject to interpretation. Even if a speaker does not measure 'perfectly', one can still get high quality with room placement. In fact, the room tends to a play large role in sound quality that can only be compensated in part with room correction (at your listening position or average of multiple positions).

On a subjective note, I tend to ocd over my active speakers with linearity, perfection, etc. but when it is time to enjoy music, I turn on my B&W.
I think the only real way to decide between the mentioned speakers - 800 and blade - is to audition them. They are different enough in sound and design that anyone likely has a clear preference.

Good Luck!

So you own both 800D3 and Blades!!

Sweet

 

[Deleted member 30699]

So you own both 800D3 and Blades!!

Sweet

Neither, heard both more than once

 

[preload]

I realize this is quite an old post but - owing B&W 800 Diamonds and new active 'reference' speakers - I'd like add a few considerations.
Active speakers can compensate (within limits) for physical deficiencies of their drivers and can get better measurements.
However, few buy a $30k speaker purely for audio quality. Design matters a lot - and usually the partner has a say here as well.

Then, all measurements are subject to interpretation. Even if a speaker does not measure 'perfectly', one can still get high quality with room placement. In fact, the room tends to a play large role in sound quality that can only be compensated in part with room correction (at your listening position or average of multiple positions).

On a subjective note, I tend to ocd over my active speakers with linearity, perfection, etc. but when it is time to enjoy music, I turn on my B&W.
I think the only real way to decide between the mentioned speakers - 800 and blade - is to audition them. They are different enough in sound and design that anyone likely has a clear preference.

Good Luck!

Totally agree. I have a pair of B&W 802D towers and Genelec 8351B's, each in separate rooms. The Genelec's sound very polite and neutral, but not amazing. So what I've done is taken measurements of the B&W's and reproduced the in-room curve on the Genelecs using additional EQ. And NOW the Genelecs sound pretty good.

 

[thewas]

Totally agree. I have a pair of B&W 802D towers and Genelec 8351B's, each in separate rooms. The Genelec's sound very polite and neutral, but not amazing. So what I've done is taken measurements of the B&W's and reproduced the in-room curve on the Genelecs using additional EQ. And NOW the Genelecs sound pretty good.

Could you share those measurements of both, also of the Genelecs with your "B&W EQ", I also had done similar experiments in the past (voicing my KEF similar to my B&W) and find them very interesting.

 

[Deleted member 30699]

I also attempted something like this but did not work well - probably because the two rooms are quite different. I don't have pseudo anechoic chaber measurements, maybe those can be used..

Out of curiosity, did anyone have success in 'revoicing' speakers by eq?

 

[preload]

Could you share those measurements of both, also of the Genelecs with your "B&W EQ", I also had done similar experiments in the past (voicing my KEF similar to my B&W) and find them very interesting.

Sure, why not:

This is a series of 3 MMM measurements using a UMIK-1 with calibration file loaded in REW with L+R playing simultaneously., presented at 1/6-oct smoothing. Source was the same pink noise track played back over Roon.

Red - Genelec 8351B's + SVS SB-3000 Pro, single measurement, GLM EQ only, very small room
Blue - Genelec 8351B's + SVS SB-3000 Pro, avg of 4 measurements, GLM EQ + Roon EQ to match 802D's above 500Hz
Orange - B&W 802D's + JL F112, average of 2 MMM measurements, large room

 

[muad]

Sure, why not:
View attachment 125047

This is a series of 3 MMM measurements using a UMIK-1 with calibration file loaded in REW with L+R playing simultaneously., presented at 1/6-oct smoothing. Source was the same pink noise track played back over Roon.

Red - Genelec 8351B's, single measurement, GLM EQ only, very small room
Blue - Genelec 8351B's, avg of 4 measurements, GLM EQ + Roon EQ to match 802D's above 500Hz
Orange - B&W 802D's, average of 2 MMM measurements, large room

Can you adjust the scale to 50 db? Just easier to make sense of it

Btw, that 2-3khz dip is my favourite thing on my speakers. It really does wonders for shite or old classic rock recordings! Speakers without it tend to sound less forgiving and more grainy to me.

 

[goldenears]

Sure, why not:
View attachment 125047

This is a series of 3 MMM measurements using a UMIK-1 with calibration file loaded in REW with L+R playing simultaneously., presented at 1/6-oct smoothing. Source was the same pink noise track played back over Roon.

Red - Genelec 8351B's, single measurement, GLM EQ only, very small room
Blue - Genelec 8351B's, avg of 4 measurements, GLM EQ + Roon EQ to match 802D's above 500Hz
Orange - B&W 802D's, average of 2 MMM measurements, large room

122dB@25Hz? What subs do you have?

 

[thewas]

Sure, why not:
View attachment 125047

This is a series of 3 MMM measurements using a UMIK-1 with calibration file loaded in REW with L+R playing simultaneously., presented at 1/6-oct smoothing. Source was the same pink noise track played back over Roon.

Red - Genelec 8351B's, single measurement, GLM EQ only, very small room
Blue - Genelec 8351B's, avg of 4 measurements, GLM EQ + Roon EQ to match 802D's above 500Hz
Orange - B&W 802D's, average of 2 MMM measurements, large room

Thank you, as I had expected the typical presence/BBC dip which I also had on my B&W and made poorer recordings sounding less strained. Also the approx. 4dB lower upper bass and mids of the B&W above might make the sound appear more clean/less muddy.