B&W 800 D3 vs KEF Blade. Let's discuss.

[watchnerd]

Well, I could stand one up in the corner and everyone would think I was so cool because of it.

Probably has the same visitor effect for 1/60th of the price.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The surfboard is an extra wave-guide.

And I thought it was so you could go to "Surf City"!

 

[bo_knows]

To give it that Blade look.

Do we need to use some duck tape to attach the LS50's to the surfboard? LMAO. This is good

 

[watchnerd]

Do we need to use some duck tape to attach the LS50's to the surfboard? LMAO. This is good

I was thinking 2 surfboards per LS50.

Stand the surfboards vertically, bracket mount the LS50 between them so the boards are sandwiching the speaker.

TBD if fins should be facing in or out.

 

[Pharos]

I think that there is a real problem here which applies to many of us, certainly me.

As a result of a legal case I was able to purchase second hand what had been a £30k pair of speakers, and yes, they have improved aspects over my previous, personally rebuilt at £1.5k.

But if you look at the market you will find numerous high end speakers at around £20k and above, and there seems to be a great convergence in performance towards an asymptotic limit to what can be achieved, with periodic reworkings producing only minor improvements.

This is like a horse race in which highly bred horses are jostling for position, and the winner is only a nose ahead, but this is temporary because soon another horse will be a nose ahead. So aren't we chasing an ephemeral 'best', which only lasts a little while?

If we keep going we can lose a lot of money changing models, and also be preoccupied with the chase rather than enjoying what we have. Surely we want to buy what is very god value, and will also last a long time despite the progress of the high end.

 

[MattHooper]

I think that there is a real problem here which applies to many of us, certainly me.

As a result of a legal case I was able to purchase second hand what had been a £30k pair of speakers, and yes, they have improved aspects over my previous, personally rebuilt at £1.5k.

But if you look at the market you will find numerous high end speakers at around £20k and above, and there seems to be a great convergence in performance towards an asymptotic limit to what can be achieved, with periodic reworkings producing only minor improvements.

This is like a horse race in which highly bred horses are jostling for position, and the winner is only a nose ahead, but this is temporary because soon another horse will be a nose ahead. So aren't we chasing an ephemeral 'best', which only lasts a little while?

If we keep going we can lose a lot of money changing models, and also be preoccupied with the chase rather than enjoying what we have. Surely we want to buy what is very god value, and will also last a long time despite the progress of the high end.

There's also the issue that, especially if you've ever done even casual-level attempts to blind test speakers (I've done a couple) it's surprising
how much more alike speakers sound, even disparate speakers, once you can't see them. Certainly you can still pick out differences, but they don't seem so extreme IMO.

That said, even seemingly minor differences can have very large subjective consequences if they bother you.

 

[watchnerd]

I think that there is a real problem here which applies to many of us, certainly me.

As a result of a legal case I was able to purchase second hand what had been a £30k pair of speakers, and yes, they have improved aspects over my previous, personally rebuilt at £1.5k.

But if you look at the market you will find numerous high end speakers at around £20k and above, and there seems to be a great convergence in performance towards an asymptotic limit to what can be achieved, with periodic reworkings producing only minor improvements.

This is like a horse race in which highly bred horses are jostling for position, and the winner is only a nose ahead, but this is temporary because soon another horse will be a nose ahead. So aren't we chasing an ephemeral 'best', which only lasts a little while?

If we keep going we can lose a lot of money changing models, and also be preoccupied with the chase rather than enjoying what we have. Surely we want to buy what is very god value, and will also last a long time despite the progress of the high end.

Is it really any different from people who buy sports cars and upgrade to incrementally better models every few years?

If losing money concerns you, it's over budget for you.

Speakers, like cars, are depreciating assets.

(collectibles being a separate sub niche)

 

[Digital Mastering System]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a JBL M2 set-up. I've seen the complete system on Ebay for about $14K. Nothing mentioned here can complete on SPL vs distortion. The spin is super nice also, as would be expected. A couple 1000W 15 or 18" subs would be an advisable addition.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a JBL M2 set-up. I've seen the complete system on Ebay for about $14K. Nothing mentioned here can complete on SPL vs distortion. The spin is super nice also, as would be expected. A couple 1000W 15 or 18" subs would be an advisable addition.

I'm turned off by the need of the M2 to buy into their whole semi-mandatory proprietary amp+DSP EQ hardware to make it work right.

You can't just buy a used M2 and hook it up to whatever electronics you already have.

 

[Pharos]

Is it really any different from people who buy sports cars and upgrade to incrementally better models every few years?

If losing money concerns you, it's over budget for you.

Speakers, like cars, are depreciating assets.

(collectibles being a separate sub niche)

It does if it is repeated.

 

[watchnerd]

It does if it is repeated.

Then shop cheaper for something where the depreciation doesn't bother you.

Whether you have realized the loss or not (in accounting terms), the depreciation still happens.

 

[Ron Texas]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a JBL M2 set-up. I've seen the complete system on Ebay for about $14K. Nothing mentioned here can complete on SPL vs distortion. The spin is super nice also, as would be expected. A couple 1000W 15 or 18" subs would be an advisable addition.

I noticed mention of the Salon 2's. How the M2's were missed is beyond me.

I have decided for the big bucks it better be able to cook, clean and of course teach me how to surf including accommodations in Maui.

 

[Pharos]

I'd rather invest more in a high end product, well, so I don't have to repeat the process.

 

[watchnerd]

I'd rather invest more in a high end product, well, so I don't have to repeat the process.

They aren't investments.

They're depreciating assets, just like cars.

They go down in value over time whether you hold on to it forever or sell every 3 years.

 

[tonyo123]

My 2 cents relating to the original question and owning both B&W and KEF brand speakers. Both sound great. Check and compare the measurements, but, agree that auditioning them and others is a must (take a future trip). Bring music you know well so you have some chance of comparing their sounds and differentiating between the two or other brands and models suggested in this thread. Listen in the sweet spot, off axis, walk around them, etc. Imaging, weight, articulation, ability to fill the room and other characteristics are also important.

I felt compelled to post (usually just read) as while one speaker type may generally measure better (the KEFs), the B&Ws have a lot of merit. The overall nautilus design, the drivers, the workmanship are top notch. I've heard the 802 D3s and was very impressed. Only technology missing is DSP equalization (which can be enabled with outboard DSP or software). The Blade 2 should also be phenomenal from posts and articles of reference. On using the LS50s with subs, it's a also a very good option, and is what I have (but, w/one sub). I would pair them with sealed a DSP-enabled subs, like sealed SVS or RELs. Other speakers like the Giya G1s (same lead engineer as the original Nautilus), or Dutch and Dutch, Wilson, Magico, Kharmas, MBLs, Vandersteen, are fantastic and can run up the price curve.

PS...On my own setup, I use the B&W N803s and KEF LS50s with a DefTech Sub (60 & 80 hz cutover), and Foobar2000 with MathAudio.

 

[MattHooper]

They aren't investments.

They're depreciating assets, just like cars.

They go down in value over time whether you hold on to it forever or sell every 3 years.

Agree that audio gear is a bad "investment."

That said, I like trying different speakers so I've bought a fair number second hand (audiogon, etc). I make sure I hold out for a brand/model that has good re-sale value, and a price at which I will lose little or no money in re-sale. It's worked out pretty well, mostly getting my money back when I sell them.

 

[watchnerd]

Agree that audio gear is a bad "investment."

That said, I like trying different speakers so I've bought a fair number second hand (audiogon, etc). I make sure I hold out for a brand/model that has good re-sale value, and a price at which I will lose little or no money in re-sale. It's worked out pretty well, mostly getting my money back when I sell them.

On the plus side, they're not as bad as boats.

 

[richard12511]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a JBL M2 set-up. I've seen the complete system on Ebay for about $14K. Nothing mentioned here can complete on SPL vs distortion. The spin is super nice also, as would be expected. A couple 1000W 15 or 18" subs would be an advisable addition.

With as much output as the M2s have, I'd probably be looking at quad 18" subs with multiple thousands of watts each at a minimum, just to make sure the deep bass stuff could keep up .

You're right, though. M2s often get overlooked for music for some reason. The HT crowd seems to more rightfully recognize their greatness. A lot of it is probably aesthetics. I actually like the love the look of the waveguide, but not as much as I like an 800D3 or Blade2.

I couldn't find stereophile dispersion like measurements(they did the Magico M2 ). I'm curious how it compares to the Blade/Blade2/800D3. There was a reddit thread that linked to a German site that claimed to have out to 90° , but it was broken.

 

[richard12511]

I'm turned off by the need of the M2 to buy into their whole semi-mandatory proprietary amp+DSP EQ hardware to make it work right.

You can't just buy a used M2 and hook it up to whatever electronics you already have.

That's certainly another factor.

 

[tonyo123]

So these pricey speakers may not be a monetary investment, but, they are a 'sound' investment that can last for many decades. This is also a good reason to go with a passive design (why I bought the regular LS50s and not the LS50Ws).