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Bowers & Wilkins 805S Bookshelf Speaker Review

ROOSKIE

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At the end of the day, audiosciencereview.com is a website offering opinions on audio gear, just like What Hi Fi. Both are just data points that can be used to inform a potential buyer. But don't get off stating that your opinion is better than another website's opinion. I'll use my PhD-educated brain to make up my own mind, thanks.

Ha, you crack me up.
PHD brain.

Honestly Amir's comment in the comment section is different from one in the body of the review. The comment section is where folks shoot the sh&t and get to actually hang out. (which means your comment also has a place here for sure)
What Hifi is good for audio porn but lets face it, that site uses a lot of makeup and soft focus filters. This site is straight pimples homey.
IMHO sites without measurements in reviews are like car reviews without 0-60 times and real MPG tests, fun to read maybe as an essay or a daydream but not really a useful product review.
Anyway just trying to lighten your mood as I thought maybe you needed it.
In any case check out all the reviews out there, I always do.
 

wwenze

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I see pages of discussing whether that is the designer's goal or not and I am reminded of this picture

tumblr_lprx6sjX8D1qi18zqo1_500.jpg
 

wwenze

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Yeah, Toole talks about this to some extent in his book(section 4.4.1 in the latest edition). Loudness compensation is messy, but it seems pretty clear there's not much need to touch the treble; it's the bass that can use adjustments at lower levels.

"Music programs are totally uncalibrated in loudness, requiring music lovers to listen and adjust a bass control until the sound is pleasantly balanced spectrally. The curves in Figure 4.6 do not call for a treble control (although there may be other reasons to use one), and loudness compensators that automatically boost the treble along with the bass are to be avoided— they are ill-conceived."

Buchardt's A500 does the best job of built-in loudness compensation I've seen yet -- it barely touches the treble but does massive changes to the bass. It sounds quite 'right' at all SPL levels:

View attachment 86655

I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be a sarcastic jab at compression... but at least the FR is flat-ish at the top.

Do remember however that such compression behavior means non-linear response which translates to harmonic distortion, and it shows. I would prefer if it can be turned off. And isn't hi-fi about "oooo headroom, no compression" to begin with.
index.php
 

ROOSKIE

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I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be a sarcastic jab at compression... but at least the FR is flat-ish at the top.

Do remember however that such compression behavior means non-linear response which translates to harmonic distortion, and it shows. I would prefer if it can be turned off. And isn't hi-fi about "oooo headroom, no compression" to begin with.
index.php
I doubt he is being sarcastic - never seen him roll that way.
He is talking about the A500 by the way - the active speaker with many DSP modes to try out and volume compensation stuff. Not the S400 you show here.
 

napilopez

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I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be a sarcastic jab at compression... but at least the FR is flat-ish at the top.

Do remember however that such compression behavior means non-linear response which translates to harmonic distortion, and it shows. I would prefer if it can be turned off. And isn't hi-fi about "oooo headroom, no compression" to begin with.
index.php

No, not sarcastic at all. You're not seeing compression in that graph until the top two curves. The A500 has built-in loudness compensation based on ISO 226:2003 standards. The behavior is as intended, and well-implemented loudness compensation is one of my favorite things about the A500. The loudness compensation easily outweighs any potential distortion caused by it, in my book.

In any case the A500 has a different woofer setup and no passive radiator, so I'm not sure how well the S400's measurements translate.
 

ctrl

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That's correct. Sudden and narrow dips in on-axis response cause THD+N as a ratio to shoot up even though its amount can be the same. It looks alarming there because it is a percentage. If you look at the 96 dBSPL graph where actual distortion level is shown, the spike is hardly there:

The Harmonic Distortion (HD) measurement is intended to show where there might be potential problems caused by HD.
Problems occur when the HD is no longer masked by the fundamental (here around 1kHz).

Therefore the percentage display is the more important display, because here the HD are always displayed in relation to the fundamental.

Since we are looking for potential weak points of a loudspeaker, we consider the worst possible case. This means that we assume a single tone around 1kHz as a masker tone - for example a synthesizer C6 tone.
A single tone is a bad masker, so in this case HD is only badly masked.

When the masker tone generates 60dB sound pressure (see green no. 1 in the diagram), then HD2 is masked at 2kHz up to a sound level of 8dB (test tone level). Which corresponds to a perceptibility threshold of -52dB/0.25% HD2 at 60dB.

At a sound pressure of 70dB@1kHz (see green no. 2 in the diagram), HD2 is masked up to -42dB/0.8%.

At a sound pressure of 90dB@1kHz (see green no. 3 in the diagram), HD2 will be masked up to -35dB/1.8%.

Please do not interpret the results from the diagram as absolutely valid values, but much more as a threshold with tolerances (depending on the individual listener).

Source: Zwicker, Fastl - Psychoacoustics
1602122791610.png


Related to the 805S the 1% HD2@86dB at 1kHz should not be a big problem yet.

Just one narrow band masker is sufficient to raise the threshold of harmonic distortion significantly.
I have described this in more detail in this post
or here in relation to a piano stroke.

In short, the dip around 1kHz (and the percentage increasing HD2) should not be ignored, because that's where a woofer surround resonance probably causes increasing HD2 which could possibly be audible.
 
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infinitesymphony

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I had access to a critical listening room for a year. Inside were two sets of speakers: a pair of Tannoy coaxial bookshelf speakers matched to some kind of sub (not sure what), and a pair of B&W Nautilus 802 floorstanders. I found the Tannoys to sound strange in that room and eagerly awaited the repair of the B&Ws, which spent most of the year unhooked due to a broken tweeter. When they were repaired I stopped in, listened for 15 minutes, and never returned.
 

BYRTT

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Thanks alot, think when a curve is jagged with response resonances as for this B&W 805S it can be hard to know or interpret what tail lenghts is natural and what is non linear distortions, so for comparison made below textbook minimum phase animation for inherent jagged response of 805S using 1st order BW / 2nd order LR / 4th order LR as crossover regions @4kHz..
REW_waterfall_x1x1x1_500mS.gif


Verse Amir's waterfall..
Amir_waterfall.png
 
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renevoorburg

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Its predecessor, the 805N has the crossover frequency at 3000Hz (according to Stereophile), iso 4000Hz. Wonder why that might be...
 

tuga

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I haven't heard a speaker better to my ears than a pair of B&W Nautilus 801s back in the mid 2000's or so. Nothing before or since. I should have bought them.

View attachment 86688

One of my references is a slighty modified B&W 801F — sealed cabinet, silk-domed tweeter.

gYZYg4x.jpg

cmecUVO.jpg


^ this FR plot came from @sergeauckland 's pair


I've heard that the studios asked for increased SPL ability and this resulted in the ported version, measured by Stereophile (Series 2), which sports a Matrix cabinet and an aluminium-domed tweeter.

I owned a pair of 802 Matrix Series 3s. They were ear-bleeders of the worst kind.
 
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DSJR

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I haven't heard a speaker better to my ears than a pair of B&W Nautilus 801s back in the mid 2000's or so. Nothing before or since. I should have bought them.

View attachment 86688

I heard some exhibited by B&W in a huge space, so no issue with close to wall boom. The sound was muffled with thick tones lower down and no 'presence' even on a flute led piece. Ghastly and I couldn't understand why studios used them (Abbey Road used some as door stops in one article I remember, but not sure that's usual there). Polygram never bought their previous generation 801 and 801M's I was told as they were reportedly given to them, my mastering engineer pal's 801's being signed out to him on 'permanent loan' when the M version replaced them. In his AV system, they sounded amazing at his house...
 

BDWoody

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tuga

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Could it be the ferrofluid was gone? A well known issue.

I've had a dead ferrofluid tweeter (D2010) before and it was dead/mute.

This was just "harsh" and "bright" sounding.
 

digicidal

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