The 3600 does support eARC and Auto Low Latency Mode, though, so it does go beyond 2.0, just not all the way to 2.1.
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Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
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The 3600 does support eARC and Auto Low Latency Mode, though, so it does go beyond 2.0, just not all the way to 2.1.
1. You want two subwoofers minimum before upgrading to a new receiver IMO
2. Even if your two front main speakers can handle bass cleanly to say 25Hz (-3dB).
3. For stereo music listening you can engage the bass management (with say two subs) and engage Audyssey MultEQ XT32. That's how I used to do it and I prefered it than without the subs and Audyssey. Even with my mains capable to 30Hz flat (0dB). ...Minus 6dB @ 24Hz.
4. I prefer programming my remote with various actions to turn everything on and off than CEC. It takes longer @ the beginning to program and refine but after that it's all set perfect. CEC is often problematic between different audio/video brands.
5. eARC is best asking Amir or another expert using it and with which Denon model.
* An Harmony (or Universal) programmable remote control is an essential component of a full movie/music multichannel system setup. Once the programming is done using a PC or Mac or laptop, only one press of one button under Activities will do for your wife everything in super simplicity of easy living. Even the baby will be amazed. And to turn everything off, also only one button press (top left).
But it's an art requiring some patience and refinement in order to master the device exactly the way you want, like the perfect loyal obedient servant (riding on a camel in the Sahara dunes).
Let me take a look. I've been interested in room EQ for a long time. You can't belive how frustrated I got many, many moons ago trying to use a 30 band per channel Soundcraftsman EQ, their test record (LP), and a Radio Shack sound level meter, using a handwritten chart. Spent many, many hours...ultimately gave up, realizing that the current technology wouldn't allow what I was trying to do.
Along these lines, if you do use an external streamer, it would be interesting to see if it sounds better as a transport or source (digital output versus analog). Seems the top rated streamers at the moment are Audiolab, Bluesound and Cambridge. I dig the Cambridge (Node 2 annoyed me that there wasn't a screen, I don't know why, but it did). However unless you run these things analog out, I'm not sure the Cambridge is worth 2X the Node 2i.
Yes.
rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Just forget about specs for a moment (as it looks like you have decent speakers and electronics already, throwing more money at it won't help). The ROOM (and setup in it) control EVERYTHING below about 200-300Hz. And EQ can't make up for extremely poor rooms or room setup. Measure, fix obvious issues, then apply EQ as dessert (peaks only, no filling in dips allowed).
Your reason for suggesting 2 subs even if the main speakers can handle the bass is because you can place the subs in the right areas to reduce room reflections and such?
Understood
rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Not North Sky, but I think we are saying the same thing. Again, room MODES (not reflections at bass frequencies, as these are much longer than the room anyway). Multisubs address room mode issues (two properly placed subs have most impact, up to 3-4 are dessert, after that gains decrease rapidly).
Anyways time to open another thread elsewhere if needed, have to come back to Denon/4700 related stuff here me thinks.
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Yes, true...but I think I'm pretty much done with my questions. Eagerly awaiting next week to hear from Denon
It seems Sonos also has been incorporating better DACs for a while now and has said that if you upgrade to S2 OS it will unlock those capabilities. The strange part is they haven’t specified what S2 supports - something better than CD quality but what?
i have a mix of old and new Sonos devices so I’m not upgrading into a split system (total cluster f***j, but I wonder what improvements were really made? Are there any new adopters out there that want to know what an S2 Sonos really delivers?
Yes, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 does a decent job in EQuing two subs acoustically in your room to your sitting position...low frequencies...nice and tight.
I like the two front near corners, and equidistant to the sweet spot.
Rooms acoustics might vary with their positioning, and depending of the numbers used (say from one to five), and the room's size and the sub's drivers size and enclosures and vented or sealed.
valerianf
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Well, a good AVR should be able to give a good result when driving only two tall tower speakers (no sub).
For that good measured characteristics (S/B ratio, dynamic, flat response curve...) are mandatory.
From that starting point all other gadgets are bells and whistles.
Reading all this thread the X4700H seems very short about this starting point (nowadays the standard input is hdmi).
For that good measured characteristics (S/B ratio, dynamic, flat response curve...) are mandatory.
From that starting point all other gadgets are bells and whistles.
Reading all this thread the X4700H seems very short about this starting point (nowadays the standard input is hdmi).
OH I see which graph you're looking at now. At first glance, yes the 32-tone test looks like it's generating tons of IMD. But what doesnt add up is how the traditional IMD measurement (presumably the "2 tone") demonstrates IMD at -83dB. Yes there should be differences between the 32-tone and the 2-tone but not on the order of 43dB. This is prob why Denon responded asking about the test conditions. Also I don't see 32-tone IMD tests being published all that often outside of asr for amplifiers. I'd be curious if Denon considers this a routine measurement as part of their design process.
I'd be curious if Denon was able to reproduce the horrible multitone IMD measured here, for starters. I'd also wonder if the review sample may have been a defective unit. And I also happened to notice that the first few "tones" exceeds 0dB in the graph, which makes me wonder if clipping occurred, resulting in the high levels of IMD.
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https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...00h-2020-avr-review.14188/page-27#post-436927
It's a result of feeding it 0 dBFS input. Which it should be able to handle without going crazy. The fact that it doesn't means something's wrong. However, it does not mean that you'll see that crazy IMD on a regular basis. But you might see it sometimes with very loudly mixed content.
In my opinion if you are interested in Room EQ but also want to do some manual tuning yourself then replaing your 4311 with the newer Denon or Marantz such as the AVR-X4500H or SR7013 would be a great option.
Your 4311 has XT32 but it cannot use the App. With the App, in additional the the features you likely already know, such as limiting the frequency range you want Audyssey REQ to apply, disable the 2 kHz BBC dip. On top of that, you can download Ratbuddyssey (free) and do your own manual tweaking, such as adding cuts and boost at frequency points of your choice. I can post a screen shot if you are interested. The Audyssey Editor App costs $20, but it is really powerful when used with the Ratbuddyssey UI.
I would think that if you have a streamer that has better specs than the AK4458, and if your option is to use it with the Denon, then it is best to use the analog inputs and direct/or pure direct mode. If you want to use the sub, you can still set XO but no DSP/Audyssey.
Are sure Heos onboad uses the lackluster network DAC set? I guess that makes sense, just trying to confirm. Thanks.
Yes, this has me frothing at the mouth to be able to do all this! A screenshot would be much appreciated.
I wonder if the 3xxx series has always been a better measuring series for some reason. If you go back to the x3300 on Audioholics:
”At 1Vrms, the FFT of the AVR-X3300W pre-out was squeaky clean, with the 2nd-order distortion 97dB below the fundamental”
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements
While not a Denon, the Marantz SR8012 measured 3 dB worse the the x3300
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8012-receiver/marantz-sr8012-bench-tests
It is interesting that the 3xxx series, for whatever reason the 3xxx series has shown to be the best measured device in the Denon/Marantz line so far (if kept under 1.4v for the units without amp disconnect)
”At 1Vrms, the FFT of the AVR-X3300W pre-out was squeaky clean, with the 2nd-order distortion 97dB below the fundamental”
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements
While not a Denon, the Marantz SR8012 measured 3 dB worse the the x3300
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8012-receiver/marantz-sr8012-bench-tests
It is interesting that the 3xxx series, for whatever reason the 3xxx series has shown to be the best measured device in the Denon/Marantz line so far (if kept under 1.4v for the units without amp disconnect)
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