Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review

[SimpleTheater]

Not if they were active subwoofers. I've seen speakers with active subs built in. So won't sap avr power

Not if..and what if all your speakers were powered.

 

[Promit]

Not just that, but even if your main speakers did have 10/12” dedicated subwoofers your AVR amp would be severely strained to drive them properly.

Not if they were active subwoofers. I've seen speakers with active subs built in. So won't sap avr power

I believe we're talking about speakers like the GoldenEar Tritons: https://www.goldenear.com/products/triton-series
But I would still describe these as extremely weak compared to home theater scale subwoofers. Probably great for listening to the jazz and vocal recordings that seem to dominate "audiophile" reviews, but nowhere near punchy enough to do justice to a soundtrack.

 

[rccarguy]

Not if..and what if all your speakers were powered.

What?

 

[peng]

Since many would intend to use the receiver as their streamer, would it make sense to have @amirm test the Heos input via roon/airplay2? If it is shown to perform relatively poorly this might be another area for improvement in future models. Unless I am not understanding this completely (always possible) it would seem customers should have at least as good performance on the streaming/music HEOS input as the other inputs. It is advertised as HD Music.. it would be nice to see how it tests as for many music is as important or more important than even home theater.

Looking at the schematics, it should be easy for them to replace the PCM5100A with the AK4490 (also 2 channel) or the newer AK4497. AK4499 would be great but that's way too much to ask.

 

[peng]

With this and the HDMI measurements in mind, I've built a RoPieee to use as a Roon endpoint and have ordered a Topping D50s.

I'm currently using a NUC via HDMI for Roon. It will be a shame to loose multi-channel for the few albums I have in 5.1, but it'll be interesting to compare the two different inputs/DACs.

I'm not expecting my X6700 to turn up for at least another week yet, possibly 2 or 3. Denon aren't shipping any of the new series to the UK yet.

I think there is hope that Denon can do something about the HDMI 32 tones test issue. You may not have to return it..

 

[Anterantz]

para cuando una revisión de denon avc x8500h? Curioso cómo en el sonido y la visión han dejado de medir el avr en el banco de energía ... ¿curioso?

 

[Bear123]

I wonder if the 3xxx series has always been a better measuring series for some reason. If you go back to the x3300 on Audioholics:
”At 1Vrms, the FFT of the AVR-X3300W pre-out was squeaky clean, with the 2nd-order distortion 97dB below the fundamental”
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements
While not a Denon, the Marantz SR8012 measured 3 dB worse the the x3300
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8012-receiver/marantz-sr8012-bench-tests
It is interesting that the 3xxx series, for whatever reason the 3xxx series has shown to be the best measured device in the Denon/Marantz line so far (if kept under 1.4v for the units without amp disconnect)

Another lucky owner of the 3XXX series here. I hope my 3300 lasts a very long time...as long as I don't need more than 7 channels, I see no reason to upgrade any time soon, since, AFAIK, spending more money, even A LOT more, would not result in any audible sound quality improvements. The only thing that might prove beneficial someday would be more power, which I can accomplish for $1k-$1500 for 2-7 channels with exceptional fidelity via a Monoprice Monolith amp.

Perhaps Dirac, but I'd need more solid proof of drastically superior sound quality than subjective impressions. The other issue with Dirac is that I like things to work well.

 

[Dimifoot]

as long as I don't need more than 7 channels

Oh, you do, you just don’t know it yet.
Adding another layer of speakers, an extra dimension, is a significant enhancement of enjoyment for both music (native Atmos/Auro3d or upmixed mono/stereo) and movies.

 

[tparm]

I believe they all do, even integrated amps such as the Yamaha A-S801. If you have the service manual, you will see that the A-s801's also show a second DAC, the PCM5101 that is a little better than the PCM5100A. The RX-A AVRs also have the PCM5101, that's why I commented that D+M should at least do the same. Denon does have the best main DACs for their flagship models, comparable to Yamha's flagship's ES9026 Pro, better than Anthem's MRX-1120's that has the same AK4458 found in the entry level Denon's X1600H, not that it is bad, just saying.. People are going to say "but its implementation that matters..", true, but then why save a couple of dollars on the chip?

Note that Yamaha's RX-A3070/80 actually have 3 different ones, the best one for the main 7 channels, a lower model for the height/Atoms channels and the 3rd one for the secondary zones.

Onkyo does the same thing as D+M for sure. NAD appears to have two different types of DAC onboard too. Anthem likely have done the same, put it this way, they even use weaker amps for some of the channels, but I have not seen any SM of theirs so I am only guessing.

Ordered Audiolab 6000n today. I’ll play around with coax and analog outputs using Amazon HD/UHD next week.

 

[enormity32]

I believe they all do, even integrated amps such as the Yamaha A-S801. If you have the service manual, you will see that the A-s801's also show a second DAC, the PCM5101 that is a little better than the PCM5100A. The RX-A AVRs also have the PCM5101, that's why I commented that D+M should at least do the same. Denon does have the best main DACs for their flagship models, comparable to Yamha's flagship's ES9026 Pro, better than Anthem's MRX-1120's that has the same AK4458 found in the entry level Denon's X1600H, not that it is bad, just saying.. People are going to say "but its implementation that matters..", true, but then why save a couple of dollars on the chip?

Note that Yamaha's RX-A3070/80 actually have 3 different ones, the best one for the main 7 channels, a lower model for the height/Atoms channels and the 3rd one for the secondary zones.

Onkyo does the same thing as D+M for sure. NAD appears to have two different types of DAC onboard too. Anthem likely have done the same, put it this way, they even use weaker amps for some of the channels, but I have not seen any SM of theirs so I am only guessing.

Hi Peng,

Just curious about the Yamaha CX-A 5020 preamp Dacs? Where do these stack up against the Denon flagships?

 

[North_Sky]

I have one sub. If you want me to have duals you could always buy me the second matching one

Use part of your stimulus ...

 

[North_Sky]

para cuando una revisión de denon avc x8500h? Curioso cómo en el sonido y la visión han dejado de medir el avr en el banco de energía ... ¿curioso?

Si compra uno, envíelo a Amir para que lo mida.
El sonido y la visión son ligeros en las mediciones y grandes en la publicidad.

 

[demoncamber]

If you read the avsforum thread (linked in my post above) there are already reports of bad/harsh sound. But those are unreliable (at the very best). Most of the people on that forum will suddenly start to hear "magic sound" when marketing tells them so and "bad sound" when measurements look bad.

Very few people/posts that you can (somewhat) trust on avsforum and a giant amount of noise and deception. But sometimes you may find some surprising gems/info in there too.

My x4700 sounds pretty decent. Been using it every day for about a week now. However, I'm using 5 channels with an Aragon 2005 THX amp and only a pair of Atmos speakers are being powered by the x4700. I have turned all channel stereo on and turned off my amp to see how they sound though on their own.

Just literally read through 20 pages to catch up! Glad to see Denon reached out to Amir!! My Denon contact said "The Denon QA team had not heard about the excessive noise issue, and they are investigating now, I’ll let you know if the Denon QA team comes back with anything."

So glad we had so many people on the case to get their attention. Feeling good about this, going to hold onto my x4700 and see how this all plays out.

 

[peng]

Hi Peng,

Just curious about the Yamaha CX-A 5020 preamp Dacs? Where do these stack up against the Denon flagships?

If you compare THD+N only, the ES9026Pro and the AK4490 are comparable. You can download the datasheets easily.
Amir mentioned before that some of the ESS DAC chips have a what he called IMD hump, but I don't know if the effect is audible, I would think not.

 

[kokishin]

Posted on the Denon website: "DENON ENGINEERS WILL RESPOND TO A RECENT BENCHMARK REVIEW ON THE AVR-X4700H"

https://usa.denon.com/en-us/data/bl...o-a-recent-benchmark-review-on-the-avr-x4700h

 

[amirm]

FYI I have the measurements from Denon. They did a very good job of trying to replicate my measurements with highly detailed documentation. Lots of care went into their analysis. We are discussing the results right now.

Resolving differences between us may be very difficult given the distance and different setups. Hopefully we can figure something out.

 

[Krusty09]

This a very cool thing. Good luck.

This goes to show even a big company can do the right thing when they want.

Nice Work.

 

[North_Sky]

It's exciting, like putting on a mask ...

 

[amirm]

This a very cool thing. Good luck.

This goes to show even a big company can do the right thing when they want.

Nice Work.

They actually a very small company in grand scheme of things compared to likes of Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc.

 

[Krusty09]

They actually a very small company in grand scheme of things compared to likes of Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc.

Understood.