Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[Easternlethal]

I can’t get my head around why to remove the product due to a “deeply flawed” review this is not rational.
If the review is flawed it cant be the base for this action ?

If it was removed due to very correct measurement has discovered that the speakers are deeply flawed . That would be rational and reasonable

The loudspeaker has not changed due to a third party measurement it’s still the same . Buy if you like it .

he's doing it because he's trying to show that he has lost sales because of the review and trying to build the case that Amir's review has had a direct effect. This doesn't work but will be enough to let his lawyers make a claim.

he could come up with any number of reasons why it was removed, like that he has to 'verify' Amir's measurements before he could start selling the speakers again.

its getting nasty

 

[Easternlethal]

why does he need to do this if he's not going to win?

because if he can't even show that he has suffered a loss in the first place then he won't be able to make a claim.

being able to make a claim and start the legal process will put more pressure because then we have to get into arguments over whether the losses were really caused by amir or him, and whether or not amir has a right to do what he did. these then become real issues a judge can decide and the legal process will get drawn out, putting more pressure on the reviewer.

in this situation, as a manufacturer, even if he loses he will still be able to say that he thought he had a case and it will look less like bullying.

 

[Doodski]

it's back https://tektondesign.com/product/specials/mini-lore-pair/

and he mentions "the flawed review of Amir from ASR"

He sure does. I screenshot the page for memory...

 

[cavedriver]

On one level this is all rather sad. The M Lore is possibly the least interesting speaker Tekton makes. Amir could have never measured it and I would be totally fine. Why? Because the multiple tweeter array speakers are the really interesting thing Tekton does. For example, Stereophile measured the "Impact Monitor" in 2018 and it did reasonably well in John Atkinson's measurements. As has been discussed elsewhere there is a real engineering reason to use massed tweeters but it also has significant potential issues. Getting one on a Klippel would be way better than the M Lore (or the Troubadour that Erin has been working on), Instead we have a company owner alienating countless potential customers across 76 pages over a speaker that never promised to add much to the audiophile community in the first place.

Thanks to JA at Stereophile we see the Impact Monitor with its 6 small domes acting as a midrange is pretty flat on axis:

But the off-axis response in both horizontal and vertical appears to have issues, with the vertical looking pretty bad:

Of course what I really want to see is larger line array speakers measured on a Klippel, like some of the almost floor-to-ceiling line arrays that DIY'ers have been building.

Also, funny aside, I noticed Tektron's flagship, which lists for ~$10k and uses 15 tweeters per side, has an "all beryllium" option, which apparently replaces those 30 tweets with the Satori Be tweeters for an extra $10k! That's just about the consumer price for 30 of the Satori's so I'd say you're getting a real bargain there...

 

[Mnyb]

he's doing it because he's trying to show that he has lost sales because of the review and trying to build the case that Amir's review has had a direct effect. This doesn't work but will be enough to let his lawyers make a claim.

he could come up with any number of reasons why it was removed, like that he has to 'verify' Amir's measurements before he could start selling the speakers again.

its getting nasty

He is clearly showing that he looses sales by removing the product from his line up

 

[markus]

He sure does. I screenshot the page for memory...

View attachment 363158

The page has been archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20240407145957/https://tektondesign.com/product/specials/mini-lore-pair/
In case evidence is needed in the future...

Really sad to see that it has come to this.

 

[MDuyck1292]

I just watched Erin`s follow-up video on the Tekton review. I`m glad he showed the email exchange with Eric, it doesn`t paint him in a good light. He comes across as petty, threatening, and retaliatory. Posting an honest review doesn`t constitute slander, and only gives potential buyers more data to make an informed decision. I will use Consumer Reports as a great example. We have enough reviewers in the audio realm that gush over every speaker reviewed and only spout subjective opinions. Having the scientific data Erin and ASR put out is a game changer for consumers and gives designers feedback to improve their products. I hope Eric reconsiders his actions and mends fences. We all make mistakes and can learn and recover from them. Unless that happens, I never see myself owning a Tekton product. Of course, I`m a happy JTR owner anyway.

 

[caught gesture]

From the new Tekton M-Lore page:

Note: the Mini Lore was recently pulled from my lineup due to a slanderous and deeply flawed review by Amir at Audio Science Review the “place where we pretend to know a lot more about audio that we really do.”

@amirm , I know you have a thick skin and are probably not the litigious type, but this statement on the company's web site is easily grounds for a defamation suit against Tekton.

@Eric Alexander , guess what - it turns out you actually do need a life coach. This is like watching a slow-motion traffic accident - or perhaps more accurately like watching a single driver plow his car into a tree.

What a strange way of advertising a product, drawing attention to a bad review and all the online fall-out from it. He seems to be self-destructing his own brand but I imagine arrogance prevents him from seeing the consequences of his actions.

 

[kschmit2]

From the new Tekton M-Lore page:

Note: the Mini Lore was recently pulled from my lineup due to a slanderous and deeply flawed review by Amir at Audio Science Review the “place where we pretend to know a lot more about audio that we really do.”

@amirm , I know you have a thick skin and are probably not the litigious type, but this statement on the company's web site is easily grounds for a defamation suit against Tekton.

@Eric Alexander , guess what - it turns out you actually do need a life coach. This is like watching a slow-motion traffic accident - or perhaps more accurately like watching a single driver plow his car into a tree.

@amirm: The page in question has been archived to waybackmachine, in case you need it in the future: https://web.archive.org/web/20240412062931/https://tektondesign.com/product/specials/mini-lore-pair/


oops, late to the party, @markus already provided a link. It might be useful to make new saves on waybackmachine frequently though, to be able to prove how long the defamatory statement is/was online.

 

[rynberg]

I just posted this summary of Erin's new video on the "other thread":

The measurements with the feet in place were essentially no different. And Erin spends about 10 minutes going through the communications with Eric Alexander -- Eric definitely threated him with litigation if the review wasn't pulled and demanded Erin post up a mea culpa video. He was also very derogatory about Erin's expertise (much like he was here with Amir), claiming the cabinet resonance at 250 Hz was due to the missing feet, etc. With the feet in place, nothing changed with the 250 Hz resonance.

Update: Eric suggested that litigation would be avoided if he brought a set of Troubadors in person to Erin and witnessed the Klippel testing in person and then film a joint video(!). He also was continually emailing Erin saying that he had now lost $3k in sales, then $6k in sales, etc. He also claimed he was going to send Erin measurements but then demanded that they have a conversation with lawyers again. It's a mess.

Update #2: Hard to watch the end as you could tell Erin was struggling with his emotions...this whole incident really caused him a ton of stress and anxiety. Eric Alexander is a real piece of work.

 

[audiofooled]

I wanna hear how this sounds

Once I had a cheap sub with threaded inserts for spikes all the way through the box. It was downfiring and shaking the floor too much so I tried flipping it and make it front firing. Before I plugged the inserts the same way @ROOSKIE did, the turbulence from the inserts (only at very low frequencies) was audible and sounded kind of funny, something similar to this:

The air speed couldn't have been much greater than a little mouse can produce, I suppose, nor was it much louder, subjectively

 

[antcollinet]

As someone noted upthread, in that instance he meant arbitrate (to the extent any desire/intention was coherent).

His use of the word litigate is clear. When he combines it with threats of claims of damages, and of it being "too late" when he posts his video - it is obvious his intent was threatening to sue. To be honest it was obvious even without those things. No-one uses litigate in the archaic sense. - especially those with poor language skills, who will always use the commonly understood meaning of a word.

"I will be obliged to litigate and seek damages" - how is that not clear?

He has now realised that this has been bad PR, and is trying to roll it back. But is doing it disingenuously by pretending he was never making that threat - rather than doing what any reasonable individual would do, and apologise for it.

I don't understand why you are defending the disingenuous approach.

 

[Thomas_A]

You all are welcome to move on. Unfortunately, I still have to deal with him as keeps sending me emails. Posts videos about me, etc. Members here have been very helpful in analyzing the situation and bringing other points of view. That is very useful to me. Until such time that there is a proper conclusion to this, I have no choice but to continue to spend time on it.

There is something fishy going on. Evidently some of his more expensive speakers show at least good on-axis response, so they must have some capabilities to measure their speakers. Yet Eric choose to show the raw woofer response of the Mini Lore rather than the whole speaker response. He is hiding the full speaker measurements and try to argue regarding "his obligations".

Very odd, but it points at the fact that his own measurements are similar to yours, and therefore, he cannot disclose this.

 

[antcollinet]

You are misstating what he said. Here it is with captions on:

View attachment 363063

He says that he hasn't sold them in the *last two months* as of the date of this video (April 10th, 2024). I posted my review 6 months ago, not 2 months ago. In his initial post in the forum in February of this year, he made no reference to lost sales. Indeed, he bragged how we didn't know his customers and his customers believed in his design methodology of "art" being involved and not hard science that we do. It wasn't until March 15th of this year where he claimed to have lost sales in his threatening message to me.

With my review having been out there for near 4 months with no effect on his sales, how could he possibly put this at my feet?

And how could sales go to zero? Are we to believe that every potential customer of his 100% believes in what we do here and took the review as "do not buy?" Even in the best case scenario we don't have that kind of market power. Many people buy products without ever looking at my reviews.

As with Eric's claims regarding technical aspects of my review, these kind of claims regarding his sales impact strain credibility. It simply makes no sense that the intersection of his customers and my readers is 100%. And that for four months, no one paid attention but all of a sudden they did with sales going to zero.

His sales have gone to zero because he pulled them from his website with an insulting comment about you. I note that has now been reversed.

EDIT: Not reversed, I was looking at the wrong speaker

 

[antcollinet]

Why wait?


Here is a sharper version

https://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/eminence/eminence_alpha_8a.pdf

That doesn’t make any sense if there is no distance specified…

Holy shit - he's sent the chart from a driver, suggesting it is of the finished speaker?

 

[antcollinet]

I guess it's possible in the heat of the moment he just found/saw that measurement in his digital files and at a glance thought it was an M-Lore measurement

That is quite a generous supposition.

 

[AscendDF]

What a mess this has become. I have had many correspondences with Erin (and also Amir) and while they have different approaches and different personalities, they both seek the same thing, truth in audio. In my professional opinion, this is highly valuable. Both of them are tremendous assets to the audio community, both are highly qualified to do and continue to do what they are doing. I had my doubts many years ago, but those doubts were quickly cast aside with multiple zoom calls with Klippel engineers to learn about the NFS.

As a manufacturer, I find this entire situation incredibly disturbing. Reviewers are going to be scared to review products, manufacturers might become emboldened to stop reviewers. Lose-Lose!

It likely isn't appropriate, but I am going to donate to Erin's Patreon and offer Eric a free consultation regarding the NFS and even some free NFS measurements. Since I am not a reviewer, measurement results would be private. Eric might be more inclined to learn or accept things from this approach. I don't think anyone wants to see this destruction continue at this point.

It would be better if Warkwyn (US Klippel distributor) handled the consultation and measurements, but I doubt Warkwyn would offer this service for free. Perhaps if I reached out to them? I don't know... Let's first see if Eric is open to this.

@Eric Alexander , please feel free to contact me privately. I promise, all correspondence between you and I will be fully confidential.

 

[caught gesture]

I’m not on Facebook, but Eric Alexander allows plenty of information to be publicly viewable. I found this post which I think gives an insight into his character.

He thinks that he is a maverick “expert“, and likes to arrogantly throw shade at the real experts and scientists. I imagine he mainly lives in a bubble of people not questioning his “expertise”. Two science-based reviews quite close together will have seriously dented that curated facade. His arrogance only allows for one type of response…

 

[Ze Frog]

It does keep getting better (...or worse I guess for Tekton..). I keep telling myself to stop reading this thread, but I have never seen anything like this in over 20 years of reading audio-related forums on the internet. I just find it so bizzare and bewildering that I have to see how this saga ends....if it ever does!

Same here, it's literally hard to believe it's actually really happening. Hopefully it will all end whereby Tekton can see the light and work with the information provided and maybe try to form some kind of cooperation with actual reviewer's and grow moving forward.

 

[Ze Frog]

What a mess this has become. I have had many correspondences with Erin (and also Amir) and while they have different approaches and different personalities, they both seek the same thing, truth in audio. In my professional opinion, this is highly valuable. Both of them are tremendous assets to the audio community, both are highly qualified to do and continue to do what they are doing. I had my doubts many years ago, but those doubts were quickly cast aside with multiple zoom calls with Klippel engineers to learn about the NFS.

As a manufacturer, I find this entire situation incredibly disturbing. Reviewers are going to be scared to review products, manufacturers might become emboldened to stop reviewers. Lose-Lose!

It likely isn't appropriate, but I am going to donate to Erin's Patreon and offer Eric a free consultation regarding the NFS and even some free NFS measurements. Since I am not a reviewer, measurement results would be private. Eric might be more inclined to learn or accept things from this approach. I don't think anyone wants to see this destruction continue at this point.

It would be better if Warkwyn (US Klippel distributor) handled the consultation and measurements, but I doubt Warkwyn would offer this service for free. Perhaps if I reached out to them? I don't know... Let's first see if Eric is open to this.

@Eric Alexander , please feel free to contact me privately. I promise, all correspondence between you and I will be fully confidential.

Kudos to you, hopefully Eric will listen to you.