Excellent work! When I'm looking for a subwoofer (key word is sub) ... I'm looking at the most spl without distortion at the lowest frequencies. I'm not worried about anything over say 200hz because I use a 60hz crossover point. The Arendals look great!!!!! Well done!!!! Wish you would have had a Perlisten or M&K dominus sub as well.
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I measured 10 subwoofers.
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totti1965
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I have a question to you as a Neumann user with two KH 750:
If I would combine a pair of KH 150 or a pair of the KH 120 II with two of these KH 750 Subwoofers (one for the left Channel and one for the right Channel) with a crossover Frequency of -let’s say- 100 Hz: is it possible to „tell“ the two subwoofers, that they have to handle a stereo signal with separate signals for left and right also below 100 Hz?
Or will they handle every signal below the crossover frequency as a Summn Signal - e. g. a Signal that is Mono (as it would be the case if you would just use one single KH 750 subwoofer)?
Are here (same Szenario) any differences between Neuman and Genelec and their dedicated subwoofers?
You can use the Neumann sub like any other sub, for example combined with a Minidsp.
You mean probably using the integrated Neumann DSP and Neumann software.
- You can't change crossover frequency. it is fixed to 80Hz.
- There are no options for a stereo sub configuration (yet) - i don't know if the new multichannel version of the MA1 software is different, but don't think so.
- There is a workaround how to trick the software into a stereo sub configuration, but is has drawbacks. Look here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-monitor-alignment.17902/page-32#post-1322860 and the linked posting of a workaround by Neumann.
Thank you for adding these. Why on earth wouldn't you include DIY? Could you just put an asterisk if you're worried about consistency etc? It's exactly the information we would want/need to decide if DIY is worth the work or not.
Classic Neumann engineering prowess, they know what they are doing.
Not all of them but most for sure
totti1965
Active Member
Thank you! Especially for the link! I think it is a major disadvantage in relation to a three way Speaker with „build in“ bass, if you are not able to put the crossover frequency to - let’s say- 250 Hz and if you are not able to hear stereo in the range betweenn 25 Hz and 250 Hz. The biggest advantage of a combination with small boxes and subwoofer is that you are able to put the woofer one meter or so closer to the listener. So you have good phase linearity, which is nearly impossible with passive 3-way or 4-way speakers! But I want Stereo Subs of course!
There is an example of someone using a KH750/310 combo as a 4-way-system,
Edit: He explains more in a youtube comment, so he used REW and the old Neumann.Control app and entered the filter values into the KH750s.
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totti1965
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Thanks!
radix
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This is the configuration of the crossover on the KH750, taken from the user manual. It does have an LFE mode where can either have none, 80, or 120 Hz. I use it with the KH80 for desktop in stereo mode, and the result is fantastic.
You are right, i meant the MA1 software.
@Nuyes , I've read your first post there on the SVS SB1000 Pro, it's the same subwoofer that I own. Based on your distortion measurements could you provide some advice on practical usage scenarios in terms of max recommended SPL? I think it's probably derivable from your graphs you've shown, but I'm unsure. So, like what would be the max recommended SPL at say 2m given your distortion measurements (given you've done your measurements at that distance) for the SVS SB1000 Pro. Would you recommend using EQ to roll off the 20Hz to allow greater SPL playback, although part of the reason for having a sub is being able to reach down to 20Hz?
It might be interesting useful to get your usage tips on say each of the subwoofers in terms of max SPL.
I measured my SVS SB1000 Pro in my room along with my JBL 308p Mkii speakers (crossed over at 120Hz), I measured them at 3m listening position and got the following distortion measurements, and find a graph also showing the Fundamental so you can see the SPL. My measurements show the same rise in distortion at 20Hz, but I think my measurements are showing overall better distortion performance than yours, but I've not translated my 3m measuring distance to your 2m measuring distance and there would be some room reinforcement of the bass being included in my measurements which I suppose reduces the load on the subwoofer:
EDIT: I think I've found the graph I need to look at to answer my questions I'm asking you, it's the following one right?
It might be interesting useful to get your usage tips on say each of the subwoofers in terms of max SPL.
I measured my SVS SB1000 Pro in my room along with my JBL 308p Mkii speakers (crossed over at 120Hz), I measured them at 3m listening position and got the following distortion measurements, and find a graph also showing the Fundamental so you can see the SPL. My measurements show the same rise in distortion at 20Hz, but I think my measurements are showing overall better distortion performance than yours, but I've not translated my 3m measuring distance to your 2m measuring distance and there would be some room reinforcement of the bass being included in my measurements which I suppose reduces the load on the subwoofer:
EDIT: I think I've found the graph I need to look at to answer my questions I'm asking you, it's the following one right?
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totti1965
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So the correct setup would be „External Bass management LFE Fullrange“ (the Diagramm at top right) x 2 for a perfect Stereo Subwoofer setup with two KH 750?
radix
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I've always thought of the SB-1000 Pro (and SB-2000 Pro) as more like 30-35 Hz speakers at full volume. I have the SB-2000 Pro, so not knocking it. it's small, and that was the compromise I was willing to make for it.
It all comes down to how loud you want to listen. In the charts, the SB-1000 Pro does 20 Hz at 90 db SPL @ 3m. If you cut the rest of the frequencies to, say 95 dB, it will do just fine (you also get room reinforcement). But if you want that 100 dB SPL it can do at the mid-bass, you won't get the lows.
It all comes down to how loud you want to listen. In the charts, the SB-1000 Pro does 20 Hz at 90 db SPL @ 3m. If you cut the rest of the frequencies to, say 95 dB, it will do just fine (you also get room reinforcement). But if you want that 100 dB SPL it can do at the mid-bass, you won't get the lows.
radix
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If you have an external processor (AVR or DSP), then yes, use the "external bass management" and drive your speakers from that system, not the KH750 outputs. Then you would have full crossover control.
Several reason:
1. You can't buy DIY subs.
2. It's confusing to the average user, to leave DIY subs in with the rest of the purchasable subs on my spreadsheet. I want people to find a good measuring subwoofer, click on the link (with no affiliates) and purchase it immediately. That process should be as simple as possible. If i'm going go include DIY subs, that complicates this process, since DIY aren't purchasable.
3. The only place where you can see DIY sub's CEA-2010-A data was at data-bass.com which they've stopped measuring a long time ago. Nuyes is probably the first person to measure DIY sub in over 10 years.
4. I wanted to make my spreadsheet for beginners. DIY sub builders are definitely not beginners, and they likely wouldn't care or use my spreadsheet in the first place.
5, Literally less than a dozen people complained about this, since I created my spreadsheet. The audience is way too small.
An advantage of a DIY sub is maximizing box volume by having the amp outboard. That, plus a great driver like the SEAS LROY or Scan-Speaks gets you a lot for your money. And also the ability to get the shape you need to fit your installation needs.
But of course it’s nice to get an off-the-shelf model if you can.
But of course it’s nice to get an off-the-shelf model if you can.
Not so sure about it, but if you tell your avr/avp that you have no sub it will probably route the sub signal to the main speakers.
Then connect the main speakers' pre-out to the subwoofers. One takes left, the other right.
That only workks with dsp speakers that can manage the crossover.
Would the room correction work ? I don't know...
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